What are the odds of Khelif winning a defamation lawsuit against Boebert? She’s falsely accusing her of being trans and therefore being ineligible to participate in women’s boxing.
Well an Olympic athlete is probably a public figure in this context, so she’d need to show that Boebert defamed her “with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not.”
"In March 2023, Khelif competed for the gold medal in the finals at the IBA Women’s World Boxing Championships; however, she was disqualified shortly before her gold medal bout against Chinese boxer Yang Liu for failing to meet the International Boxing Association’s (IBA) eligibility criteria. According to the Algerian Olympic Committee, Khelif was disqualified due to medical reasons; later reports indicated her testosterone levels were too high to compete.[21][22] Uzbekistani boxer Navbakhor Khamidova was awarded the bronze medal instead of Imane Khelif.[23]
In 2023, IBA president Umar Kremlev said that the disqualifications were because DNA tests “proved they had XY chromosomes”.[24][25] The Washington Post stated, “It remains unclear what standards Khelif and Lin Yu Ting failed [in 2023] to lead to the disqualifications”,[25][26] further writing, “There never has been evidence that […] Khelif […] had XY chromosomes or elevated levels of testosterone.”[25] The IBA did not reveal the testing methodology, stating the “specifics remain confidential”.[27]"
I would disagree. When the right (known liars like Boebert, Trump, Logan Paul, etc) continuously lie about anything to try to rile up their base, I say it’s imperative to completely disregard their opinions unless someone trusted is making the accusations. This is what they expect, this is exactly what they want. We need to ignore them. Not even bring it up. Keep them fringe and outcast them as weirdos. They bring nothing good to the table but lies, hatred, and divisiveness.
I would disagree. As another poster pointed out, there are serious questions about the integrity of the IBA, not least the fact that they aren’t recognised by the IOC. To suggest that the IOC wouldn’t have clear eligibility criteria feels at best misguided.
The IOC does have clear eligibility requirements for atheletes who are legitimately transgender, I’m not sure how that applies to born-female atheletes. You have to have a testosterone level below a set level for a full year before and during competition.
We already know she failed that test previously, or rather, PURPORTEDLY failed that test previously, given the overall jankieness of her boxing federation.
That’s what makes the whole thing complicated. Did she REALLY fail it? 🤔 Is the boxing federation corrupt? 🤔 It’s a big ball of suck.
But my point is that Bobo’s accusation isn’t some bullshit she just made up, like 99% of everything else she says.
The ‘accusation’ is that Imane Khelif is a ‘biological male’, which is absolutely some bullshit she just made up. Maybe there’s an argument to be had around testosterone levels in female athletes (although again, the allegation that Khelif has higher than average levels has not actually been corroborated) but I personally don’t think so, and I don’t think this is an example that necessitates that conversation.
When 99% of what a person says is made up bullshit, chances are the remaining 1% are too. Or at least it’s taken out of context and twisted to fit a desired narrative. You can’t trust anything they say either way.
The president of the IBA (Umar Kremlev) is a Russian in a position of privilege, a position that is easily influence by Putin’s agenda (who hate anything pro LGBTQ+). I would argue, with plenty of facts to back it up, that the IBA is compromised and is unable to have a neutral stance on this matter.
Under Kremlev’s tenure as IBA head, he has heavily marketed himself, moved the IBA’s operations to Russia, suspended Ukraine from the IBA, and made the Russian state-owned energy giant Gazprom the sole sponsor of the IBA… The IOC stated that the IBA had failed to address governance, finance and corruption concerns.
There is absolutely nothing complex about this matter. A woman had a physical advantage over another woman, and is immediately suspected of not being a ‘real woman’. This shit is as old as time itself, and it would never happen to a man.
Suspected of not being a real woman after having previously tested for too high a testosterone level.
To be fair, testosterone does occur naturally in both men and women (as does estrogen for that matter), and it’s not unusual for people to over-produce one or another for a variety of medical reasons.
But the accusation is not based purely on her performance.
She has previously tested for high testosterone levels in a test that was, by the words of an IOC official, "cobbled together, as I understand, overnight [during the world championships] to change the results.” The nature of the tests was unspecified, and the governing body has been banned from the Olympics over governance and corruption issues. It has been insinuated that the unspecified test at the world championships was only administered by the Russian-led IBA after Khelif defeated a Russian athlete.
Khelif was born a woman, has identified as a woman all her life, and was even banned from boxing as a child by her father because he deemed it to be ‘not for girls’. She has competed for years, has wins and losses in her belt like any other athlete.
And yes, as you say, high testosterone levels in women can occur due to a variety of reasons, including medical ones. So we should not immediately suspect foul play when a high performing female athlete has above average testosterone.
Since I’m on my phone I am not going to deeplink each claim - receipts are in the following articles:
And one more thing: a man would never be subject to this kind of demeaning scrutiny even if he seriously outperforms his peers. Michael Phelps has unusual body features that give him an almost unfair edge over competitors. He has won 20 gold medals in his career. His success is attributed to skill and hard work. Katy Ledecky has matched his medal tally, and was subjected to the same suspicions and demeaning scrutiny as Khelif is now. Hint: there is no evidence that she is anything but a woman. The gender scrutiny of high performing female athletes goes back to the 1930s, because for some reason high performing women with a perceived unusual or ‘non-feminine’ physique are immediately suspect.
It’s a little complicated. The Italian boxer who faced Imane in the last match said she “had never been punched that hard before” and had to resign in the first minute.
There’s no proof of an Y chromosome, the test Imane failed was just for testosterone (which might be natural). I’m not a doctor, but couldn’t that just be from doping or something? She’s from Algeria, which has only won like 17 Olympic medals total, which could encourage cheating. It would explain her punches being stronger.
Oh fuck off. For one, it’s not even clear whether higher testosterone levels really give an athlete that much of an edge - many high level male athletes have comparatively low testosterone levels. Secondly, the forms of doping that involve testosterone are not manifesting themselves purely in higher testosterone levels - there are other tests for that. If there was any suspicion that this athlete was doping, they’d run the gamut on her - note how many athletes were already suspended this year, and they’re not from comparatively poor countries like Algeria.
If a male boxer beats an opponent to a pulp, then we collectively shrug and move on. Oh well, he was just better. Poor matchmaking. But when it involves women, suddenly there must be something wrong with the athlete who, applying Occam’s Razor, simply was stronger.
They’re being “mean” because you’re jumping to assumptions that a brown woman is cheating because she was very good at a sport, and all your comments are laced with transphobic undertones. There is zero evidence to suggest Imane Khelif cheated, but you keep acting like there is.
How many people have had to surrender within a minute (not a knockout or pin)?
A lot, actually. It’s a violent sport, it happens all the time. Ronda Rousey famously had a match called in under a minute by a ref because she was so seriously outmatched, it doesn’t mean her opponent was cheating or trans.
You’re implicitly accusing an athlete you don’t even know of cheating and doping, insinuating that it’s because she is from a country that hasn’t won many gold medals - but I’m being mean for telling you to fuck off?
Would you like me to repeat my words, or would that be too ‘mean’?
Didn’t at least one person say the same thing about Mike Tyson?
Being better than everyone else might mean cheating, but it also might mean they are just better. No way for us plebs on the ground to know. It sounds like the IBC has not fostered enough trust to be taken at their word.
That being the case, it seems reasonable to take Imane’s word for it until the matter can be settled by a trustworthy body.
She had previously competed without issues and was disqualified by the sport’s governing body only after she defeated Russian boxer Azalia Amineva in the 2023 tournament. The IBA is controlled by Umar Kremlev, who is Russian and brought in the state-owned energy supplier Gazprom as its primary sponsor and moved much of the governing body’s operations to Russia.
This week, the IOC described it as “a sudden and arbitrary decision by the IBA” in which Khelif and Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan “were suddenly disqualified without any due process.” Lin was suspended for failing to meet unspecified eligibility requirements in a biochemical test.
The reasons for the two disqualifications are extremely murky, as is almost always the case with the IBA. The governing body has revealed little about the nature of the tests, including what was tested and who tested it. This lack of transparency would be unacceptable in major Olympic sports, and the IBA has been banned from the Olympics since 2019.
AIBA TO IBA: “In December 2021, the abbreviated name was changed to IBA in an attempt to rebrand the organisation and distance itself from the former administration.”
“…The organization has been involved in multiple corruption scandals including on several editions of the Summer Olympic Games. In December 2017, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) expressed concerns about the governance of AIBA…”
“…In September 2021, an independent report found that bouts leading up to and during the 2016 Rio Olympics had been manipulated. To investigate boxing at the 2016 Summer Olympics and potential corruption of the AIBA, Canadian lawyer Professor Richard McLaren was appointed by AIBA to conduct a three-stage investigation. The report found bouts had been manipulated for money (up to $250,000), the perceived benefit of AIBA…”
“The IOC had been alarmed by the fact that the IBA’s only sponsor is a Russian state-run energy giant Gazprom that supports the Russian invasion of Ukraine”
“In February 2023, USA Boxing announced its decision to boycott the 2023 World Championships (organized by the International Boxing Association)…, also accusing the IBA of attempting to sabotage IOC-approved qualification pathway for the 2024 Summer Olympics.”
The IBA is a corrupt organization, funded by a Russian, state-run, company. Them disqualifying someone carries no weight.
What are the odds of Khelif winning a defamation lawsuit against Boebert? She’s falsely accusing her of being trans and therefore being ineligible to participate in women’s boxing.
Well an Olympic athlete is probably a public figure in this context, so she’d need to show that Boebert defamed her “with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not.”
Pretty good, I’d wager.
Remember there’s a harm component as well - Khelif is Algerian, where being outed as LGBTQIA of any stripe can get you killed by the state.
Where would the lawsuit even take place?
It’s a little more complicated than that:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imane_Khelif
"In March 2023, Khelif competed for the gold medal in the finals at the IBA Women’s World Boxing Championships; however, she was disqualified shortly before her gold medal bout against Chinese boxer Yang Liu for failing to meet the International Boxing Association’s (IBA) eligibility criteria. According to the Algerian Olympic Committee, Khelif was disqualified due to medical reasons; later reports indicated her testosterone levels were too high to compete.[21][22] Uzbekistani boxer Navbakhor Khamidova was awarded the bronze medal instead of Imane Khelif.[23]
In 2023, IBA president Umar Kremlev said that the disqualifications were because DNA tests “proved they had XY chromosomes”.[24][25] The Washington Post stated, “It remains unclear what standards Khelif and Lin Yu Ting failed [in 2023] to lead to the disqualifications”,[25][26] further writing, “There never has been evidence that […] Khelif […] had XY chromosomes or elevated levels of testosterone.”[25] The IBA did not reveal the testing methodology, stating the “specifics remain confidential”.[27]"
Why does matter? She’s not transgender in any way, making Boeberts claims false.
Boebert isn’t the first person to make the claim and they have been sanctioned previously. Like I say, it’s a complex matter.
I would disagree. When the right (known liars like Boebert, Trump, Logan Paul, etc) continuously lie about anything to try to rile up their base, I say it’s imperative to completely disregard their opinions unless someone trusted is making the accusations. This is what they expect, this is exactly what they want. We need to ignore them. Not even bring it up. Keep them fringe and outcast them as weirdos. They bring nothing good to the table but lies, hatred, and divisiveness.
I would say the head of her boxing federation is a trusted source. That’s what makes this complicated.
“In 2023, IBA president Umar Kremlev said that the disqualifications were because DNA tests “proved they had XY chromosomes”.[24][25]”
Reportedly the XY test was false, but at the same time, they aren’t releasing the methodology that allowed them to say she has XY chromosomes.
You mean the boxing federation filled corruption and that was disqualified by the Olympics?
I would disagree. As another poster pointed out, there are serious questions about the integrity of the IBA, not least the fact that they aren’t recognised by the IOC. To suggest that the IOC wouldn’t have clear eligibility criteria feels at best misguided.
The IOC does have clear eligibility requirements for atheletes who are legitimately transgender, I’m not sure how that applies to born-female atheletes. You have to have a testosterone level below a set level for a full year before and during competition.
We already know she failed that test previously, or rather, PURPORTEDLY failed that test previously, given the overall jankieness of her boxing federation.
That’s what makes the whole thing complicated. Did she REALLY fail it? 🤔 Is the boxing federation corrupt? 🤔 It’s a big ball of suck.
But my point is that Bobo’s accusation isn’t some bullshit she just made up, like 99% of everything else she says.
The ‘accusation’ is that Imane Khelif is a ‘biological male’, which is absolutely some bullshit she just made up. Maybe there’s an argument to be had around testosterone levels in female athletes (although again, the allegation that Khelif has higher than average levels has not actually been corroborated) but I personally don’t think so, and I don’t think this is an example that necessitates that conversation.
When 99% of what a person says is made up bullshit, chances are the remaining 1% are too. Or at least it’s taken out of context and twisted to fit a desired narrative. You can’t trust anything they say either way.
The president of the IBA (Umar Kremlev) is a Russian in a position of privilege, a position that is easily influence by Putin’s agenda (who hate anything pro LGBTQ+). I would argue, with plenty of facts to back it up, that the IBA is compromised and is unable to have a neutral stance on this matter.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_Kremlev
There is absolutely nothing complex about this matter. A woman had a physical advantage over another woman, and is immediately suspected of not being a ‘real woman’. This shit is as old as time itself, and it would never happen to a man.
Suspected of not being a real woman after having previously tested for too high a testosterone level.
To be fair, testosterone does occur naturally in both men and women (as does estrogen for that matter), and it’s not unusual for people to over-produce one or another for a variety of medical reasons.
But the accusation is not based purely on her performance.
She has previously tested for high testosterone levels in a test that was, by the words of an IOC official, "cobbled together, as I understand, overnight [during the world championships] to change the results.” The nature of the tests was unspecified, and the governing body has been banned from the Olympics over governance and corruption issues. It has been insinuated that the unspecified test at the world championships was only administered by the Russian-led IBA after Khelif defeated a Russian athlete.
Khelif was born a woman, has identified as a woman all her life, and was even banned from boxing as a child by her father because he deemed it to be ‘not for girls’. She has competed for years, has wins and losses in her belt like any other athlete.
And yes, as you say, high testosterone levels in women can occur due to a variety of reasons, including medical ones. So we should not immediately suspect foul play when a high performing female athlete has above average testosterone.
Since I’m on my phone I am not going to deeplink each claim - receipts are in the following articles:
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympics-boxer-imane-khelif-anti-trans-rcna164721
https://apnews.com/article/olympics-2024-boxing-gender-4b6eb881cce9c34484d30c68ad979127
And one more thing: a man would never be subject to this kind of demeaning scrutiny even if he seriously outperforms his peers. Michael Phelps has unusual body features that give him an almost unfair edge over competitors. He has won 20 gold medals in his career. His success is attributed to skill and hard work. Katy Ledecky has matched his medal tally, and was subjected to the same suspicions and demeaning scrutiny as Khelif is now. Hint: there is no evidence that she is anything but a woman. The gender scrutiny of high performing female athletes goes back to the 1930s, because for some reason high performing women with a perceived unusual or ‘non-feminine’ physique are immediately suspect.
It’s a little complicated. The Italian boxer who faced Imane in the last match said she “had never been punched that hard before” and had to resign in the first minute.
There’s no proof of an Y chromosome, the test Imane failed was just for testosterone (which might be natural). I’m not a doctor, but couldn’t that just be from doping or something? She’s from Algeria, which has only won like 17 Olympic medals total, which could encourage cheating. It would explain her punches being stronger.
Oh fuck off. For one, it’s not even clear whether higher testosterone levels really give an athlete that much of an edge - many high level male athletes have comparatively low testosterone levels. Secondly, the forms of doping that involve testosterone are not manifesting themselves purely in higher testosterone levels - there are other tests for that. If there was any suspicion that this athlete was doping, they’d run the gamut on her - note how many athletes were already suspended this year, and they’re not from comparatively poor countries like Algeria.
If a male boxer beats an opponent to a pulp, then we collectively shrug and move on. Oh well, he was just better. Poor matchmaking. But when it involves women, suddenly there must be something wrong with the athlete who, applying Occam’s Razor, simply was stronger.
I don’t know why you’re being mean. I’m not misgendering anyone. How many people have had to surrender within a minute (not a knockout or pin)?
They’re being “mean” because you’re jumping to assumptions that a brown woman is cheating because she was very good at a sport, and all your comments are laced with transphobic undertones. There is zero evidence to suggest Imane Khelif cheated, but you keep acting like there is.
A lot, actually. It’s a violent sport, it happens all the time. Ronda Rousey famously had a match called in under a minute by a ref because she was so seriously outmatched, it doesn’t mean her opponent was cheating or trans.
You’re implicitly accusing an athlete you don’t even know of cheating and doping, insinuating that it’s because she is from a country that hasn’t won many gold medals - but I’m being mean for telling you to fuck off?
Would you like me to repeat my words, or would that be too ‘mean’?
Didn’t at least one person say the same thing about Mike Tyson?
Being better than everyone else might mean cheating, but it also might mean they are just better. No way for us plebs on the ground to know. It sounds like the IBC has not fostered enough trust to be taken at their word.
That being the case, it seems reasonable to take Imane’s word for it until the matter can be settled by a trustworthy body.
There is nothing complex about it.
IBA was itself disqualified for corruption and being slanted pro Russia.
They never provided evidence to their claims, and can you imagine that this disqualification was involved right after she won against a Russian boxer?
Why didn’t they do it after she won against Nigerian (IIRC) boxer? Or what about her losing 9 times to other women?
Yup. This is the important context.
from this article:
It’s not more complicated. Following emphasis mine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Boxing_Association
AIBA TO IBA: “In December 2021, the abbreviated name was changed to IBA in an attempt to rebrand the organisation and distance itself from the former administration.”
“…The organization has been involved in multiple corruption scandals including on several editions of the Summer Olympic Games. In December 2017, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) expressed concerns about the governance of AIBA…”
“…In September 2021, an independent report found that bouts leading up to and during the 2016 Rio Olympics had been manipulated. To investigate boxing at the 2016 Summer Olympics and potential corruption of the AIBA, Canadian lawyer Professor Richard McLaren was appointed by AIBA to conduct a three-stage investigation. The report found bouts had been manipulated for money (up to $250,000), the perceived benefit of AIBA…”
“The IOC had been alarmed by the fact that the IBA’s only sponsor is a Russian state-run energy giant Gazprom that supports the Russian invasion of Ukraine”
“In February 2023, USA Boxing announced its decision to boycott the 2023 World Championships (organized by the International Boxing Association)…, also accusing the IBA of attempting to sabotage IOC-approved qualification pathway for the 2024 Summer Olympics.”
The IBA is a corrupt organization, funded by a Russian, state-run, company. Them disqualifying someone carries no weight.
I’d argue that allegations of corruption in the league, in fact, makes the whole issue MORE complicated, not less complicated. ;)
IBA has Russian ties and has not provided evidence for that claim that wikipedia sources
The fact that you are a mod of this sub too but you spread misinformation on it is disgusting
Stop spreading transphobic and sexist misinformation