Hello, sh.itjust.works community. I am curious what you think about ClubsAll, and whether you think we should stay federated with them. A few other Lemmy instances have recently defederated so this seems like a timely topic for discussion.

In short, ClubsAll is an ActivityPub-compatible Reddit clone. The site currently has one-way federation with no attribution: ClubsAll pulls content from Lemmy and displays it as local ClubsAll content. For example, you can visit https://clubsall.com/c/196 and there is no indication that the content is from https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/c/196.

Here are relevant posts with more information and context:

In the first post the ClubsAll founder commented that they plan to eventually have two-way federation, and to make the project open source. Whether those things actually happens is anyone’s guess.

What do you think?

  • BillibusMaximus@sh.itjust.works
    111·
    13 days ago

    I’ve been around the block a few times, so maybe I’m just jaded.

    My take is that it’s a proprietary platform, siphoning user data/content to redisplay and monetize.

    Additionally, my gut feeling is that they don’t care about the community at all, and are just trying to leverage it to make money. They want to be the next reddit, and think the fediverse is their ticket. And I don’t think anything I’ve seen so far indicates otherwise.

    We block Threads, and I think we should block this, too, immediately. If, in the future, the situation changes and they actually “give and take” rather than just “take” , then it should be simple enough to refederate.

    My 2c.

    • baggachipz@sh.itjust.works
      3·
      12 days ago

      If I wanted to start another Reddit, this is what I would do. Hell, siphoning content from Reddit is still done in many places on Lemmy to stock the pond. In this case, we have the opportunity to stop it before a competing platform takes off. If they’re not going to play by the rules of federation, they don’t deserve the bounty.

          • vinay_clubsall@lemmy.world
            1·
            8 days ago

            This is based on what feels fair to you and not a documented rule. The issue is that everyone has their own version of what is fair - federate out, self hosted, open source, attribution, usernames shown in particular way, exemption (or no exemption) for smaller sites based on time or traffic and so on.

            In any case, this is a goal we are working towards. As we discussed before, this will be done before ClubsAll has any meaningful traffic.

            • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.orgEnglish
              2·
              8 days ago

              But, to be honest, what I am bothered by, is the fact that the website doesn’t give an attribution in the UI about which instance certain users are from and which instance certain certain community are from.

              https://slrpnk.net/comment/12723802

              blocked for technical reason: scraper.

              https://moist.catsweat.com/m/[email protected]/t/670763/-/comment/5352039

              My concern in this is the integrity of the fediverse and its users. Yours, apparently, is “saving” a platform that leeches content off federated platforms to make a buck off those users. I don’t see much chance of agreement on “what is fair”.

              https://kbin.earth/m/[email protected]/t/741461/-/comment/4153987

              Can’t have it both ways of leeching the posts from other large instances while simultaneously making it an exclusive club where only local users can participate, it goes contrary to the social contract and spirit of the Fediverse.

              https://lemmy.ca/comment/13413542

              • vinay_clubsall@lemmy.world
                1·
                4 days ago

                A few others have expressed concerns with attribution. So as suggested we will be changing username from /u/xyz to /u/[email protected] . I hope that addresses your concern.

                As you know, the comments are federated. Also, our development was blocked due to sublinks development being blocked. Also as I mentioned elsewhere we have 10 users with no posts, so users are missing out on exactly 0 posts. I am not having it both ways. At present we are sharing what we have (comments and 0 posts).

                Also, we are working on making it better. I agree definition of fairness varies, but giving some time to new instances, especially the ones who are developing from scratch, is fairly reasonable. Let’s say average 1 comment a day (i.e. 30 comments a month) can be seen by everyone (as we are federating) and is a very basic ask without hurting any other instances in community.

                • Blaze (he/him)@feddit.orgEnglish
                  2·
                  3 days ago

                  If you fix the attribution, that would probably be good enough for a lot of people.

                  In the meantime, be ready for this kind of posts every 2-3 months.

    • vinay_clubsall@lemmy.world
      2·
      9 days ago

      Hi there, I am creator of clubsall. We absolutely do care about community.

      There were many discussion few months ago. There were also private discussions with some admins. Because we are not lemmy based, so our development takes time (plus my developer left, plus we were trying to move to sublinks which itself has federation issues). So federation for us is not a config setting. Also, we are a very niche site with almost no traffic.

      Additionally, different admins feel different rules are fair, so it is hard for us to know how to be good community members. I request a common set of rules, preferably based on traffic, so any newbie can get the breathing room to develop and participate. Does that sound fair?

      • BillibusMaximus@sh.itjust.works
        3·
        9 days ago

        We absolutely do care about community.

        You can say that all you want, but actions speak louder than words.

        Because we are not lemmy based, so our development takes time (plus my developer left, plus we were trying to move to sublinks which itself has federation issues). So federation for us is not a config setting.

        You launched what you apparently considered to be your MVP, and it’s a one-way leech of fediverse user content.

        The fact that you were willing to launch without federation in place signals, at least to me, that you care far less about community participation than you do about the content the community produces.

        Additionally, different admins feel different rules are fair, so it is hard for us to know how to be good community members.

        Welcome to the fediverse, where every software stack works a little differently, and every server has its own rules.

        I request a common set of rules, preferably based on traffic, so any newbie can get the breathing room to develop and participate. Does that sound fair?

        You’re asking for someone to give you a set of common rules across all instances? For unpaid users and/or volunteer admins to spend their time compiling this information just to provide it to you?

        No, actually. To me that doesn’t sound fair at all.