Due to the severity of the situation and the fast flowing news cycle, we have decided to create a general megathread for discussion regarding the conflict.

Informal/Satirical news sources are not allowed on the main feed of the community but you are free to post them in this thread.

Please remember that all community and instance rules apply to this thread hence keep is civil.

    • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Tl;dr Israel showed up and kicked Palestinians out, Palestinians want their land back. Ensue 80 years of complications

      • Ktastic@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Also Israel has two means of aquiring citizenship. First is having Jewish ancestry. The second and more problematic is that anyone who converts to Judaism can apply in a slower process that grants them citizenship. People who aquire citizenship can then live there and gain govt benefits that subsidize living cost, in other words, govt sanctioned stealing of Palestinian homes/land. Thats why Palestinians say they often hear settlers with Brooklyn accents. People who live in places like NYC with high costs of living are basically given the option to have much cheaper housing if they convert and forget their morals about theft.

        So basically Israel recruits citizens from groups of people who have financial incentives to move there and lack a sense of humanity to turn down “free stuff stolen from destitute opressed people” and thus you build a citizenry who is totally comfortable with this Apartheid/Genocidal bullshit.

        • Pipoca@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          There’s more than 2 ways to get Israeli citizenship.

          Both of those fall under the “right of return” for Jews.

          Non-Jews with permanent residency can become citizens after 3 years if they give up their previous citizenship. Meanwhile, Jews are allowed to be dual citizens. For example, some Druze in the Golan Heights became Israeli citizens that way, particularly due to the Syrian Civil War.

          Also, in 1952, Israel passed a citizenship law that gave citizenship to anyone who had been a national of the British mandate in 1948, had registered as an Israeli resident in 1949, and hadn’t left Israel before claiming citizenship. So about 170k Arabs were granted citizenship, while the ~720k who fled or were expelled during the war were excluded, although they expanded eligibility a bit in 1980 to include Arabs who had returned to Israel after the war.

      • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        It’s even simpler

        Israel showed up and kicked the Palestinians out, those either unable to or unwilling to leave are now being subject to ethnic cleansing.

        Or even simpler: Israel’s sole purpose is to exterminate Palestine.

          • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Israel also wants to keep the support from the US so they are cleansing slow enough that the US won’t care.

            Like when Russia creates it’s breakaway regions as an excuse to take a chunk out of a country. No one cares when they did it to Georgia or when they are doing it to Moldova but with Ukraine they became too visible and got a pretty big backlash. The trick is to not do crimes too visibly.

        • WhatTrees@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          Europe (Britain mostly) and the US pushed the newly formed UN to pass a resolution calling for the creation of Israel in 56% of the territory, but the zionist militias actually took almost 75% of the land while destroying entire villages and murdering the existing population. The West continued to support them after that and have been tacitly approving of them taking even more of the land as the decades have gone by. The West is not blameless, but it was very much Israel that did it.

        • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          There was never a place called Palestine outside of the British mandate

          And there wasn’t a place called the United States of America until 1776?

          Only after ‘67 were these locations earmarked as “Palestinian land”.

          Because Israel took over more land that was fully inhabited by the Palestinians (for the second time)

          And why, when Egypt and Jordan made peace with Israel, did they renounce any claims to Gaza and the West Bank instead of pushing for Palestinian statehood in those areas? It’s almost as if the Arab world chooses to keep the Palestinians poor and stateless as a means to vilify and discredit Israel…

          Assuming you’re arguing in good faith, which is a huge assumption, the answer comes down to negotiating power. Egypt was able to get the entire Sinai peninsula back during these negotiations. Israel never fully gave up the Gaza strip, hence the second part of my tl;dr above: “Palestinians want their land back. Ensue 80 years of complications”

          • masquenox@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Why should the people in the Middle East suffer because of what nazi Germany did?

            It’s not just the Nazis - it’s the entire west.

        • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          There were always Jewish people in the area who were often treated as second class citizens by a Muslim majority, btw.

          When the west promised Israel to the Jewish people around the globe and the population already living there, many other Arab/Muslim countries were also already gladly exiling their Jewish population as well.

          It wasn’t “just the west”.

          With the promise of a state and Zionism as a religious driver they stomped the people already living there, although these people were simultaneously promised their own state called Palestine.

        • masquenox@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Can we acknowledge that it’s one of the most complicated geopolitical circumstances in the history of the world?

          No, we can’t… because it’s not. It’s only “complicated” due to pro-Israeli propaganda and nothing else - it’s no more “complicated” than Apartheid South Africa was.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          There’s only two teams. The imaginary side you made up in your head doesn’t exist.

          It’s Hamas or Israel. Pick one.

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              By not picking a side you become invisible and irrelevant. If you don’t want to pick a side, just tune out and go play video games or something because it’s basically the same thing.

              • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                No shit that I am irrelevant to the war in Gaza. I live on the other side of the world and dont have any political power. The most I could do is try to send some money to aid the Palestinian refugees, and I still would be invisible and irrelevant to it. Are you sending money, supplies, armaments, or fighting for Hamas? If not you are invisible and irrelevant to this conflict yourself. Just like 99.999% of the world’s population.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Vocal support matters in democracies. If Western governments stopped supporting Israel this war would be very different.

                  By not even vocally supporting anything you have taken away your own voice. You’ve silenced yourself.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  When Palestinians held peaceful marches for freedom, Israel blew their knees out. Pacifism doesn’t work when one side thinks you’re animals.

                  Also, by choosing to not pick a side, you’re just tacitly siding with the winning side. Which side do your tax dollars go to?

          • mookulator@mander.xyz
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            1 year ago

            Almost a troll-like insistence on lack of nuance to an extremely complex situation

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              The invocation of nuance is a trick to get you to not take a stance that matters and to stay trapped in your own head cooking up imaginary solutions that can never and will never happen.

              The actually nuanced position is to support Hamas despite its flaws, because they’re the only material force that is fighting for Gaza.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  The actually nuanced position is to be opposed to the bloodshed and race/religion-based tribalism happening with both the Israeli government AND Hamas, and to do more than just “tut tut” Israel’s recent activities in the West Bank and the virtual prison they’ve turned Gaza into.

                  Hamas is resisting Zionism, not Jews. They’re pretty explicit about that.

                  So if you oppose race/religion-based tribalism you support Hamas, because they’re the ones opposing it.

      • blterrible@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        “European settlers” in the sense that they hadn’t been in Israel since the Romans kicked them out in '65 for causing too much trouble with all their messiahs and religious zealotry.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          2000 years!

          They hadn’t ever been in Israel, they were born and raised in Europe by parents that were born and raised in Europe by grandparents that were born and raise in Europe etc. etc. They were Europeans, complete with white skin and European culture and European language.

          This wasn’t refugees returning to their home. It was settlers invading nonwhite people’s land and stealing it for themselves.

          • redcalcium@lemmy.institute
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            1 year ago

            Yeah, if we stretch this logic even further down, we all get to claim our ancestral land in Africa from 200 millennia ago.

            • masquenox@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              The Netherlands had better watch out… my ancestors came from there about 300 years ago, and that automatically gives me the right to rape, torture and murder my way through Antwerp!

            • rchive@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Yes, all ancestral land claims are ultimately at least a little bit silly.

          • blterrible@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Yes, the vague equivalent would be for the Native Americans to reclaim the United States via superior force ~1800 years from now.

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Not even Native Americans!

              It would be the equivalent of people with extremely diluted ancestry and no connection to any tribe, white people who practice a Native religion and speak an extremely deformed English dialect of some Native language but are otherwise just US Americans.

          • Hyperreality@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            A third of Israelis are (family of) refugees/emigrants from the middle-east or north Africa.

            It’s not a ‘white european’ country, which you’d know just looking at them.

            Imposing simplistic American notions of race on a complicated conflict is stupid and embarrassing.

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Yeah, now. That’s because they imported Jews from everywhere they could to become Israeli. It started as a European settler project.

              But if you look at the positions of power, the government and businesses and celebrities, you’ll see mostly white faces. Israel definitely has a white supremacist bent to it - you don’t think an Ethiopian Jew will ever be the prime minister do you?

              America’s white majority is going to disappear too, but you don’t think that will actually end American white supremacy right?

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  You still see white faces in high places. That’s why Europe and America are Israel’s greatest supporters - they want an ethnosate in the middle east.

                  That’s why you aren’t going to ever see an Ethiopian Prime Minister. Now you’re right, race isn’t exactly like it is in the US. It actually reminds me more of colorismo in Latin America, where racial prejudice is based more on how dark your skin is than being clear cut along racial lines. Light skinned Asians get to have this privilege in the racial majority.

                  But there is a racial component to Israel’s apartheid regime and its unlimited support from Europe and America, and you have to acknowledge this.

                • probablyaCat@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  I’ll be honest. Most Americans don’t even realize Roma are a real group of people. They hear gypsy and think crystal balls and magic. The population is much smaller and more integrated in the US than in Europe so many have never met someone from that group. But I mean if you want the honest answer, a person that looks white in America is considered white until a reason is given otherwise. Maybe a name. Maybe a symbol. Maybe they say something. My youngest son can pass for white easily. Asheknazi jews are white by current american standards, but I don’t see white southern baptists churches needing armed security during service. And I’m one generation shy of when Jews weren’t allowed in to certain places.

                  Race is weird in America. And Americans are very touchy about it on both sides. I think it’s because it’s built on a house of cards, but so many fundamental things revolve around it. Racial justice on the left. Umm… other things on the right. Like racism is definitely real. I can make it through police checkpoints without getting stopped, while my wife gets stopped every time. But Americans like to pretend there is some true hard standard when it is all a wobbly social construct.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  If they were given their own settler colony and started being treated as an equal by all the other white countries? Yes.

                  I wouldn’t consider a European Jew before the formation of Israel to be white, but they’re sure as fuck white now.

                  • Hyperreality@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    If someone of white European heritage burns down a synagogue frequented by what you consider people of white European heritage, would you still consider that racist given they’re the same race? Or would you consider that less racist than someone burning down a church frequented by black people?

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              racism, forced displacement and oppression

              HMM WHY DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR?!

              capped off with one of the most horrific genocides in the history of the world.

              History repeats, I guess.

              Keep screeching for nuance while Israel bombs evacuation routes and refugee camps with the full throated support of Europe and America.

              • probablyaCat@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                While I won’t argue in support of the amount of force Israel is using, I am curious what you believe they should do. For this current situation and the whole situation at large.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Return the land they stole and reform the single Palestinian state so they can peacefully coexist within Palestine.

            • masquenox@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              2000 years of racism, forced displacement and oppression, capped off with one of the most horrific genocides in the history of the world.

              And who is responsible for that, eh? The same “western civilization” that is now using Israel as a kapo state to do it’s dirty work in the middle-east, perhaps?

            • dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org
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              1 year ago

              It’s almost like you just want to believe Jewish people are bad guys to fit a simpler narrative of what’s happening.

              Its almost like you want to collapse all Jews and the settler colonial state of Israel into one group to fit a simpler narrative of what’s happening.

                • dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org
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                  1 year ago

                  So all of Israel is a colonial state? Yes.

                  What should happen with it and it’s over 9 million people? You return proper land ownership and a lot of people will move back to where they’re from when they no longer get preferential treatment and free stuff. It happened in South Africa. If you don’t live on land that was stolen from Palestinians but within Palestinian borders, you live in Palestine now.

        • probablyaCat@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          The Jews are the most despicable and contemptible nation to crawl upon the face of the Earth, because they have displayed hostility to Allah.

          Allah will kill the Jews in the hell of the world to come, just like they killed the believers in the hell of this world.

          -- Atallah Abu Al-Subh, former Hamas minister of culture

          Palestine is Islamic, and not an Islamic emirate, from the river to the sea, that unites the Palestinians. Jews have no right in it, with the exception of those who lived on the land of Palestine before World War I.

          This is Islam, that was ahead of its time with regards to human rights in the treatment of prisoners, but our nation was tested by the cancerous lump, that is the Jews, in the heart of the Arab nation… Be certain that America is on its way to utter destruction, America is wallowing [in blood] today in Iraq and Afghanistan, America is defeated and Israel is defeated, and was defeated in Lebanon and Palestine… Make us victorious over the community of infidels… Allah, take the Jews and their allies, Allah, take the Americans and their allies… Allah, annihilate them completely and do not leave anyone of them.

          --Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Bahar, acting Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council

          By God, we will not leave one Jew in Palestine. We will fight them with all the strength we have. This is our land, not the Jews…

          -- Abdel Aziz Rantisi, Hamas leader

          The Jews: killed the prophets…slaughtered the innocent…imprisoned our pious… NO PEACE WITH THE MURDERERS.

          Let everyone know that Hamas… is only against Jews and those twisted in their manner… it realizes the Jews’ methods in trying to cause hostility and friction between people…

          We should lend punches to the Jews wherever possible [to commemorate Muhammad’s defeat of one of the Jewish tribes of Arabia].

          --Hamas communiqué

    • zerfuffle@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Palestinians want freedom and sovereignty, the Israeli government wants the exact opposite, and most Israeli people either support the government or don’t care what happens (particularly because they get free real estatesettlements out of it).

    • Whitebrow@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Most normal people don’t. But the political situation of “we were here first” vs. “This is now the land of Israel” causes whatever you see happening nowadays.

      • Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de
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        1 year ago

        It’s an option. An outpost in the Middle East that serves as a vanguard to easily start proxy wars with the oil countries. Then deploy boots on the ground while hiding behind plausible deniability. “We just supported our allies.”

        It’s like War on Terror, an excuse for the corporations to get more dollaroos. The problem is not that they are running out, the problem is that others still have some.

    • Mrkawfee@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Zionist colonisers from Europe forced Palestinians from their land 75 year ago and have continued to inflict death and misery on those that remain.

      • Pipoca@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        It goes back a bit further than that, right?

        The Jaffa riots, for example, were back in 1921. Palestinians rioted and killed about 50 Jews, and British police killed about 50 Palestinians while trying to restore order.

      • FunkyButter@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You mean the world finally allowed the Jewish people to establish a country in their ancestral homeland (which has maintained a Jewish presence in that land for the last 4000 years) and the Arab world continually rejects a partition plan that would allow 2 states for 2 people, instead resorting to terrorism and a repeated call for the extermination of the Jewish people, resulting in Israel having to do what it must to protect its interests and the interests of the Jewish people everywhere.

        Let’s not forget - the people referring to themselves as Palestinians could have had a state any number of times in the last century, but it’s not really about that, it’s about killing Jews. If a state is what they wanted, they could have had it by now:

        San Remo conference decisions, 1920 League of Nations decisions, 1922 Peel Commission proposal, 1937 UN General Assembly proposal, 1947 Israel’s stretched out hand for peace, 1948 Israel’s offer of fixed official borders, 1949 Israel’s stretched out hand for peace, 1967 Begin/Saadat peace proposal, 1978 Rabin’s contour-for-peace, 1995 Barak/Clinton peace offer, 2000 Sharon’s peace gesture, 2005 Olmert/Bush peace offer, 2008 Netanyahu’s invitation for peace, talks, 2009 Obama/Kerry contour-for peace, 2014

        • masquenox@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Oh look… a genocide apologist has shown up.

          You mean the world finally allowed the Jewish

          What do you mean, “the world,” apologist? Antisemitism is purely a western invention - don’t blame the entire world for that which white people did.

          Also, don’t pretend that Zionism is (somehow) a Jewish idea - the idea originated in Christian countries that wanted to dump Jewish people in Palestine due to… drumroll, please… the west’s antisemitism.

          Do tell, Clyde… which part of the world’s murderous antisemitism is the root cause of the idea of a modern-day Israel even making sense to many Jewish people, eh?

          Stop pretending that Christian Zionism doesn’t predate Jewish Zionism - that cat is out of the bag, Clyde.

          Israel’s stretched out hand for peace

          Oh, look… the genocide apologist is pretending the side that has been engaging in genocide somehow isn’t and that it’s the people experiencing genocide that is the cause of the fucking genocide.

    • CluckN@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      They don’t it’s a bit to keep the west from crowding their tourist spots.

      • BradleyUffner@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, these attacks and bombings are just an elaborate stage play to keep out the tourists… 🤦‍♂️

        What’s the matter with you?