The Spanish government said on Thursday that it would deploy the army to Ceuta to reinforce security after the crossings, which saw many migrants swim around the border to reach the territory.

  • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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    10 days ago

    Some ways are more sensible than others, but the whole concept of illegal immigration emerged from racists trying to maintain their racial purity so it’s fundamentally flawed from the get go.

    • HM King Charles III DG FD@feddit.uk
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      10 days ago

      It depends how you look at it. Generally people respect the autonomy of native americans. I think racial purity is stupid, but different cultures do have different social systems, more diverse than what we realise. Generally, integration is a good thing rather than a free-for-all.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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        10 days ago

        Generally people respect the autonomy of native americans

        Uh… not really but sure? It’s not the native Americans that started controlling immigration; it was white Americans.

        but different cultures do have different social systems, more diverse than what we realise.

        And this, a complete non-issue for the vast majority of human history, suddenly became a massive problem just as developed countries were getting worried about lesser races compromising their racial purity. Yeah, right.

        Less sarcastically, what you’re presenting is one of multiple competing rebrandings for a system that is ultimately about racial purity. That’s how it started and it was never meaningfully reformed from there.

        • HM King Charles III DG FD@feddit.uk
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          9 days ago

          If the native americans controlled immigration and had the means to do so, they’d probably be in a better position.

          I’d rather if we’d stop drying to be disingenuous and bring race into the argument. If anything, the major factor is religion. Immigration between european societies isn’t such a big deal as they all generally follow or were at least raised in some flavour of Christianity. Meanwhile Islamic societies and Islam itself have different values when it comes to things such as the treatment of women, polygamy, etc, that there’s some form of integration that needs to happen for the two religions to coexist with each other. Same can go for any other religion essentially.

          • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
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            2 days ago

            Immigration between european societies isn’t such a big deal as they all generally follow or were at least raised in some flavour of Christianity.

            Say, how’d that get there, anyway?

            The year 782 was a turning point. Charlemagne held another assembly at Lippespringe near Paderborn, where he likely introduced the infamous Capitulatio de partibus Saxoniae – a harsh legal code demanding loyalty to the Frankish regime and Christianity under penalty of death.

            https://www.medieval.eu/carolingian-wars-in-saxony-772-804/

            Ain’t no hate like christian “love”.

            some form of integration that needs to happen for the two religions to coexist with each other. Same can go for any other religion essentially.

            You’re on the right track! Religion divides us, we are all better without it. Truth is not whatever you want it to be. Truth is truth, and we should all try not to distort it. Religion lets you pat yourself on the head for being wrong. It is a cancer that must go.

            • HM King Charles III DG FD@feddit.uk
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              2 days ago

              Truth is not whatever you want it to be. Truth is truth, and we should all try not to distort it.

              I agree, the truth is that Jesus of Nazareth is God and that we’d all be less divided if we would all accept facts over feelings and became Christian.

              • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
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                2 days ago

                Jesus of Nazareth is God

                Demonstrate that god exists.

                Then demonstrate that Jesus is god.

                You can’t? THEN STOP FUCKING LYING.

                The problem of evil disproves any god that is both loving and powerful.

                Do you realize there is exactly as much evidence for Muhammad and allah as for your bullshit? Why don’t you believe the quran?

                we’d all be less divided if we would all accept facts over feelings and became Christian.

                Oh, okay. Sounds nice on paper, if you’re an idiot. But which denomination?

                You seriously want to pretend “christian” means one thing? All it means is “I lie to get what I want.” The flavor of the lie is irrelevant. It is still dividing people, not uniting them.

                A song for you, murderer: https://snoopsqueak.com/video/102

                Fuck you for choosing death.

                • HM King Charles III DG FD@feddit.uk
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                  17 hours ago

                  Demonstrate that god exists. Demonstrate that Jesus is god.

                  1. Jesus, who claimed to be God, died by Crucifixion.
                  2. The disciples had experiences that they believed were appearances of a risen Jesus.
                  3. They were even willing to die for their first-hand claims
                  4. Resurrection was proclaimed very early (immediately after the cross).
                  5. James, Brother of Jesus, became a Christian.
                  6. Apostle Paul, used to be a persecutor of Christians, also believed.

                  Do you realize there is exactly as much evidence for Muhammad and allah as for your bullshit?

                  There isn’t. Mohammed is a proven liar.

                  Why don’t you believe the quran?

                  The Qur’an claims that the Bible is the word of God, yet explicitly contradicts it, such as claiming Jesus wasn’t God nor The Son of God, nor was He crucified. Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted, but the Qur’an claims that the word of God cannot be changed, and also refers to the Bible in present tense. We know for a fact that the Bible we have now is exactly the same as what they had in 7th century Arabia. Hence, Islam is false. This is known as the Islamic Dilemma.

                  Oh, okay. Sounds nice on paper, if you’re an idiot. But which denomination?

                  Doesn’t really matter. Denominations agree on 95% of things. Christians love each other regardless of denomination. It’s people who don’t truly believe what Jesus taught us and care more about power that really care about denominations. I have never actually met a Christian pastor who wanted me to change denomination. My Church invites preachers from different denominations. My family is divided among Christian denominations as well. We have zero issues with each other apart from some recreational debates which we both know won’t change each others minds, but it’s just a fun activity to open up scripture and present our points for why we believe in a certain minor thing and why. There’s a strawman where people think “they believe if they’re not in the same denomination they’re not going to heaven” it simply isn’t true. I truly believe that all of my Christian Brethren will be in heaven, whether they are Papist, Eastern, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, etc. One of us is probably more right than the other, but we’d just laugh about it.

                  At the same time, Atheism isn’t completely coherent either. It’s split between Anti theism, Agnostic Atheism, Agnosticism, and plain old “I believe God doesn’t exist” which I’ll just call pure Atheism. There’s also Humanism which believes in morality, and a moreso form of Nihilism which doesn’t (forgive me if I am not up to scratch with the terminology here, but my point still stands).

                  • SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today
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                    16 hours ago

                    Jesus, who claimed to be God, died by Crucifixion.

                    We have some historical evidence suggesting this, sure.

                    The disciples had experiences that they believed were appearances of a risen Jesus.

                    But we have no way of confirming what those experiences actually were, or if they even happened.

                    They were even willing to die for their first-hand claims

                    Again, do you believe in allah? People regularly die for their belief in him, often taking others with them.

                    This is not evidence that their beliefs are true. This is evidence that their (and your) beliefs are deadly.

                    Resurrection was proclaimed very early (immediately after the cross).

                    By who? And again, how do we know it happened? Proclaiming something does not make it true.

                    James, Brother of Jesus, became a Christian.

                    Apostle Paul, used to be a persecutor of Christians, also believed.

                    They were tricked like the other disciples. Why is that less likely to you than a magic god man rising from the dead?

                    There isn’t. Mohammed is a proven liar.

                    So is Jesus. His prophecies did not come true.

                    The Qur’an claims that the Bible is the word of God, yet explicitly contradicts it, such as claiming Jesus wasn’t God nor The Son of God, nor was He crucified. Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted, but the Qur’an claims that the word of God cannot be changed, and also refers to the Bible in present tense. We know for a fact that the Bible we have now is exactly the same as what they had in 7th century Arabia. Hence, Islam is false. This is known as the Islamic Dilemma.

                    By that same logic, christianity is also false. The christian bible contradicts itself many times despite claiming to be the word of god. It literally cannot all be true. It can all be false.

                    Doesn’t really matter.

                    Bullshit.

                    Denominations agree on 95% of things.

                    Mkay. Citation needed, firstly, but even if the difference is as low as 5%, that could include anything. Homophobia? Misogyny? Slavery? Oops, you allied yourself with people who believe god wants you dead. Do you let them kill you, just in case they’ve got it right?

                    Christians love each other regardless of denomination.

                    Bullshit. Would you like some examples of christians calling each other sinners, heretics, etc based on arbitrary nonsense? There are many.

                    It’s people who don’t truly believe what Jesus taught us

                    What did he truly teach us? The bible contradicts itself. “Tell lies to suit yourself”? No thanks, that’s suicidally stupid.

                    care more about power that really care about denominations.

                    But the denominations each think they are true and inevitably vie for power.

                    I have never actually met a Christian pastor who wanted me to change denomination.

                    You haven’t looked very hard. Do you know what an evangelical is?

                    My Church invites preachers from different denominations. My family is divided among Christian denominations as well. We have zero issues with each other apart from some recreational debates which we both know won’t change each others minds, but it’s just a fun activity to open up scripture and present our points for why we believe in a certain minor thing and why.

                    Proving my point: religion encourages division and there is no unifying standard, even in your own church, even in your own family.

                    There’s a strawman where people think “they believe if they’re not in the same denomination they’re not going to heaven” it simply isn’t true.

                    It is true, depending on the denomination.

                    You somehow are still not realizing that you already wrote a blank check. There is no walking it back now. If someone reads the bible and interprets their own denomination as the only valid one (like the bullshit jesus spewed), they will believe you are not going to heaven unless you think like them.

                    I truly believe that all of my Christian Brethren will be in heaven, whether they are Papist, Eastern, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, etc. One of us is probably more right than the other, but we’d just laugh about it.

                    But you have no idea whether you’re right. If you get to heaven and it’s only your denomination specifically, will you still be laughing while everyone else suffers in hell? Or will you be too busy enjoying your rewards to even spare a thought for all the people you failed to save?

                    At the same time, Atheism isn’t completely coherent either.

                    It is. It is lack of belief in a god. Given that there is no evidence for any god, atheism makes the most sense.

                    It’s split between Anti theism, Agnostic Atheism, Agnosticism, and plain old “I believe God doesn’t exist” which I’ll just call pure Atheism.

                    You’re making shit up.

                    Atheism is lack of belief in god. Most atheists admit to being agnostic atheists because there is no way for a person to prove a negative.

                    I am anti-theist because I see that liars like yourself are getting people killed for nothing. But you don’t care, you think they deserve it. You lie that your choices are not causing pain, but they are, and for no special gain.

                    Everything good found in religion is even better outside of it.

                    There’s also Humanism which believes in morality

                    Most atheists also believe in morality, unless they’re as suicidally stupid as yourself. I made a video months ago about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfgXj_V33Pw

                    Empathy is reasonable. That’s why I’d like you to stop killing innocent people.

                    a moreso form of Nihilism which doesn’t (forgive me if I am not up to scratch with the terminology here, but my point still stands).

                    Atheism itself is unrelated to nihilism and morality. But the less magical thinking a person engages in, the easier it is to hold them accountable.

                    You refuse to stop being a death cultist because you think a wizard is telling you how to live and you’re not allowed to question him even though there is no reason to believe he even exists.

                    That is psychotic.

                    Fuck you for choosing death.

                    You have not remotely demonstrated that god exists. Do you understand my points?

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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            9 days ago

            What happened to the Native Americans can be called “immigration” only as much as WWII can be described as “the Germans immigrated east.” This is a complete non-sequitur.