We have a partial port of GrapheneOS to the Pixel 11 series after a week of work on it. We're unable to complete the port due to lack of support for ARM hardware memory tagging in software, firmware and near certainly hardware. It appears Google cut an important security feature to save money.
So no reason to buy a Pixel at all any more? Midrange performance, poor battery life, middling cameras, AI bloated software, all at flagship prices. Its one saving grace was Graphene support and that’s now gone too.
Motorola is unfortunately gonna be in the same boat too when it comes to the prices. And I highly doubt GOS is gonna focus on their cheaper phones because they notoriously have poorer software. So now, it seems GOS is gonna be an exclusive feature. If you want it, your gonna have to pay for it.
I personally don’t trust Motorola due to having poor experiences with their budget phones. Its not worth with unless you shell out the money.
Huawei, Xiami and other Chinese brands still exist, not sure which models or brands support it but there are still multiple who support you running your own OS on them.
Even though that’s true. Phones really shouldnt be expensive. GOS isn’t supporting the older phones, I think the oldest you can go now is the pixel 7. Since GOS is stopping for the Pixel 11, Is there any other alternative OS that can be used for pixels? Or where are the other phones that supports GOS?
Google is closing in on their phones. GOS users in a time span of 3-7 years (depending on the pixel they have) would unfortunately have to find an alternative after that lifespan unless GOS starts supporting other phones that isnt breaking the bank. GOS as well is basically closing off their OS market. Which is why I made that comment. If you want the OS now, they’re gonna make you pay for it.
GOS users in a time span of 3-7 years (depending on the pixel they have) would unfortunately have to find an alternative
7 years is crazy amount of time for a phone.
Almost double of average lifespan (3x the average according to some sources). You’re not going to get more than 7 years from any phone so I’m not sure what alternative are you looking for. Even the 3 years for oldest phones are close to average lifespan.
Also, it’s not like getting a Pixel somehow ties you down to Pixel phones forever. Your next phone can be any other Android phone and you can use any other deGoogle Android version on it. Ditching Pixel phones because you will only be able to use them for 7 more years makes 0 sense.
Pixel has 7 years of support so you could get Pixel 10 and use with Graphene OS until 2033 but yes, if you need to switch every year to the latest model than you can skip Pixel.
Switched to a P10 Pro from P7Pro due to storage and battery (new phone battery uses 10% ina day of idle. Old one consumed about 10% per hour. (Mostly) same apps).
If it wasnt for the storage I’d have replaced the battery…Would have been much cheaper.
Yea, my Pixel 7 that I bought in spring 2023 got a swollen battery. If I could have easily replaced it, no problem. But after watching a few repair tutorials it seemed way too difficult, so I just got a Fairphone 6+.
Did most of it. The battery lasted about 3.5ish years until it became a bit annoying without a powerbank/outlet near me.
7 years on the original battery is probably impossible if you use it moderately (not like the usual normie for just facebook, youtube and whatsapp and maybe a bit of browsing for 2-3h per day max).
Ironically, Microsoft platform as of yet still is pretty much a given that Linux may also run, with the exception of some of the Surface systems, but the ones no one wanted anyway. Apart from SecureBoot, Microsoft is picky enough about firmware specifications that are open, Linux can more easily be customized than random embedded things. Some things were rough, like ACPI implementations that didn’t comply strictly with the spec but microsoft happened to tolerate it, but fundamentally the Microsoft approach of outsourced everything makes for better chance for third party OSes.
I originally bought Pixels because they were the opposite of what they are now. Bloat-free devices (other than Google apps) that just provided the tools I needed to do things, while having excellent hardware security. Now it’s basically GeminiOS, and they’re solving the problem they created by throwing out security.
Every Pixel event for the past several years has been almost entirely about Gemini. A software feature. Which just goes to show that they have no hardware features.
Graphene choosing to die on the hardware MTE hill has always seemed weird to me. It’s one feature but it excludes 99% of the phones except the Pixel. GrapheneOS has so much to offer besides it, and nowadays they could use Rust as a workaround anyway.
Pixel has some great features and is an interesting deGoogled OS but their approach to security is just silly. It’s basically “we will not let anyone compromise on security because it could be bad PR for us”. They pretend they care about the brand but then they simply wont let majority of users use their OS. I think normal team would simply make Graphene OS available for other phones and then have some Graphene OS Extended Security version compatible only with select phones. Their purist approach only turns away potential users.
The software MTE support in the kernel apparently predates the hardware support of the same, based on the above link.
Admittedly I might be misunderstanding something here, my confidence level is only 65%.
p.s.: i just learned that this uses a lot of extra RAM compared to hardware MTE. there seem to be approaches to mitigate the RAM blow up, but this discussion is above my paygrade, so I have to bow out. That said, I think it is correct that the absense of hardware MTE should not be the end of the road for secure smartphone design.
I was so disappointed with my pixel 10. It’s kept a pixel 7 alive for years (great phone) and only swapped when the battery swelled. The 10 was no better and potentially worse, I replaced the battery on the 7 myself and lamented it’s loss to my son (he gets my cast offs). Such a good line of phones that’s clearly peaked.
I upgraded my pixel 6 to a 9 and this phone is much worse in most ways. I fail to understand how one of the richest companies in the world puts out worse products over time and thinks it’s alright
There wasnt any 9 for sale so I bought 9a instead few days ago, because Samsung removed the option to unlock bootloader in OneUI 8.0, but so far it’s going fine.
What do you find bad about the 9? I bought a used 8 to try GrapheneOS on, but the HW isn’t as good as my S23. I was thinking of maybe going to a 9 or 10 if I could make GOS my daily, not just for the better cameras and ultrasonic FP reader, but the desktop mode on the 8 is god awful. The output is so heavily compressed and only does 1080p, DeX just crushes it.
I’m on an 8 but I’ve been having battery issues. Not because the battery is bad but due to a software issue since an update about 6 months ago. If I’m not in WiFi whatever my most recently opened app is uses an insane amount of battery. If nothing is open then it will be a system app.
So no reason to buy a Pixel at all any more? Midrange performance, poor battery life, middling cameras, AI bloated software, all at flagship prices. Its one saving grace was Graphene support and that’s now gone too.
Just in time to move on to Motorola…
Bought a Pixel 10 Pro instead of the new 11 Pro.
Worse display, price more expensive, no upside to the older model.
Literally said to myself “Yeah…no. No, thank you” when looking at the specs vs P10Pro
Motorola is unfortunately gonna be in the same boat too when it comes to the prices. And I highly doubt GOS is gonna focus on their cheaper phones because they notoriously have poorer software. So now, it seems GOS is gonna be an exclusive feature. If you want it, your gonna have to pay for it.
I personally don’t trust Motorola due to having poor experiences with their budget phones. Its not worth with unless you shell out the money.
Huawei, Xiami and other Chinese brands still exist, not sure which models or brands support it but there are still multiple who support you running your own OS on them.
I know, but Im spcifically speaking on GOS and how they as well sound like they are closing themsevles off.
Older Pixel phones are not that expensive. Why would you need the latest one?
Even though that’s true. Phones really shouldnt be expensive. GOS isn’t supporting the older phones, I think the oldest you can go now is the pixel 7. Since GOS is stopping for the Pixel 11, Is there any other alternative OS that can be used for pixels? Or where are the other phones that supports GOS?
Google is closing in on their phones. GOS users in a time span of 3-7 years (depending on the pixel they have) would unfortunately have to find an alternative after that lifespan unless GOS starts supporting other phones that isnt breaking the bank. GOS as well is basically closing off their OS market. Which is why I made that comment. If you want the OS now, they’re gonna make you pay for it.
7 years is crazy amount of time for a phone.
Almost double of average lifespan (3x the average according to some sources). You’re not going to get more than 7 years from any phone so I’m not sure what alternative are you looking for. Even the 3 years for oldest phones are close to average lifespan.
Also, it’s not like getting a Pixel somehow ties you down to Pixel phones forever. Your next phone can be any other Android phone and you can use any other deGoogle Android version on it. Ditching Pixel phones because you will only be able to use them for 7 more years makes 0 sense.
Pixel has 7 years of support so you could get Pixel 10 and use with Graphene OS until 2033 but yes, if you need to switch every year to the latest model than you can skip Pixel.
I have a pixel 7a and the battery only lasts a few hours. Nobody is getting 7 years out of a phone
Switched to a P10 Pro from P7Pro due to storage and battery (new phone battery uses 10% ina day of idle. Old one consumed about 10% per hour. (Mostly) same apps).
If it wasnt for the storage I’d have replaced the battery…Would have been much cheaper.
You can replace batteries in phones.
Yea, my Pixel 7 that I bought in spring 2023 got a swollen battery. If I could have easily replaced it, no problem. But after watching a few repair tutorials it seemed way too difficult, so I just got a Fairphone 6+.
I managed to squeeze 5 years out of a $200 budget phone. 7 years on mid-range or flagship is trivial.
Especially as new Pixels have lots of features to improve battery longevity:
charging only up to 80%,
OLED display that turns off pitch black pixels. Many apps nowadays have pitch black themes, and you can set wallpapers to pitch black,
limit display smoothness to 60 Hz,
battery saving mode,
dark mode,
turn off background usage for individual or all apps
Did most of it. The battery lasted about 3.5ish years until it became a bit annoying without a powerbank/outlet near me.
7 years on the original battery is probably impossible if you use it moderately (not like the usual normie for just facebook, youtube and whatsapp and maybe a bit of browsing for 2-3h per day max).
Google became the new Microsoft
Ironically, Microsoft platform as of yet still is pretty much a given that Linux may also run, with the exception of some of the Surface systems, but the ones no one wanted anyway. Apart from SecureBoot, Microsoft is picky enough about firmware specifications that are open, Linux can more easily be customized than random embedded things. Some things were rough, like ACPI implementations that didn’t comply strictly with the spec but microsoft happened to tolerate it, but fundamentally the Microsoft approach of outsourced everything makes for better chance for third party OSes.
I originally bought Pixels because they were the opposite of what they are now. Bloat-free devices (other than Google apps) that just provided the tools I needed to do things, while having excellent hardware security. Now it’s basically GeminiOS, and they’re solving the problem they created by throwing out security.
Every Pixel event for the past several years has been almost entirely about Gemini. A software feature. Which just goes to show that they have no hardware features.
Graphene choosing to die on the hardware MTE hill has always seemed weird to me. It’s one feature but it excludes 99% of the phones except the Pixel. GrapheneOS has so much to offer besides it, and nowadays they could use Rust as a workaround anyway.
Pixel has some great features and is an interesting deGoogled OS but their approach to security is just silly. It’s basically “we will not let anyone compromise on security because it could be bad PR for us”. They pretend they care about the brand but then they simply wont let majority of users use their OS. I think normal team would simply make Graphene OS available for other phones and then have some Graphene OS Extended Security version compatible only with select phones. Their purist approach only turns away potential users.
Apparently the Linux kernel can emulate MTE in software:
https://lwn.net/Articles/833353/
The software MTE support in the kernel apparently predates the hardware support of the same, based on the above link.
Admittedly I might be misunderstanding something here, my confidence level is only 65%.
p.s.: i just learned that this uses a lot of extra RAM compared to hardware MTE. there seem to be approaches to mitigate the RAM blow up, but this discussion is above my paygrade, so I have to bow out. That said, I think it is correct that the absense of hardware MTE should not be the end of the road for secure smartphone design.
I was so disappointed with my pixel 10. It’s kept a pixel 7 alive for years (great phone) and only swapped when the battery swelled. The 10 was no better and potentially worse, I replaced the battery on the 7 myself and lamented it’s loss to my son (he gets my cast offs). Such a good line of phones that’s clearly peaked.
I upgraded my pixel 6 to a 9 and this phone is much worse in most ways. I fail to understand how one of the richest companies in the world puts out worse products over time and thinks it’s alright
There wasnt any 9 for sale so I bought 9a instead few days ago, because Samsung removed the option to unlock bootloader in OneUI 8.0, but so far it’s going fine.
Same boat, I’ve honestly considered just buying a secondhand unlocked 6XL and installing graphene on it. I’ve not been happy with my 9.
What do you find bad about the 9? I bought a used 8 to try GrapheneOS on, but the HW isn’t as good as my S23. I was thinking of maybe going to a 9 or 10 if I could make GOS my daily, not just for the better cameras and ultrasonic FP reader, but the desktop mode on the 8 is god awful. The output is so heavily compressed and only does 1080p, DeX just crushes it.
Writing this from my 7… hoping to get another one or two years out of it.
I have a 7a will use it until graphene support ends then its onto Motorola.
I’m on an 8 but I’ve been having battery issues. Not because the battery is bad but due to a software issue since an update about 6 months ago. If I’m not in WiFi whatever my most recently opened app is uses an insane amount of battery. If nothing is open then it will be a system app.