and yet, we STILL won’t stop eating animals.
Just switching from beef to chicken and pig gets you 90% of the way to vegan, emissions-wise.
It’s an easy substitution to make. Make beef a treat or a once in a while thing.
It’s expensive anyway.
Honestly that’s kinda how I treat beef nowadays, and I’m a relatively well-off software engineer. Not to mention, there are real and meaningful health considerations to take into account.
yes…because me eating meat is the highest cause of greenhouse gasses. totally not the unmonitored industrial factories across the globe.
It’s not the only source, or even a majority, but it is big enough to matter and it saves money for almost everybody to stop. (Sole real exception: arctic populations who have to import anything agricultural)
ok. I’ll bite.
do you know what the highest part of a grocery bill is? the vegetables. the volume and the quality of vegetables you would need to buy to meet the same caloric value of a diet that includes meat would instantly out price poor families.
why do you think poor people are so fat? it’s because the cheapest foods are carb heavy. boxed meals like hamburger helper, spam, suddenly salad, etc are all far cheaper than having a diet that relies solely on vegetables. and those boxed meals, what do they entirely rely on? MEAT!
so the next time you’re slogging down your vegan moral superiority, think about the poor family living on $200 a month for groceries for five or six people. do you think you could feed a family of six for 30 days on $200 in vegetables with the same caloric value?
Indian food is largely vegetarian and you really can eat well and cheaply on vegetables. Beans, rice, and potatoes will take you a long way. Paneer is great.
But granted, meat is incredibly subsidized in North America as a rule and it can be more difficult than in other places.
Them as can should, though, to make it cheaper for them that can’t.
beans, lentils, potatoes, rice, legumes …
More protein, more health, more calories, lower price than meat
You’re probably thinking about watery out of season vegetables like tomatoes and broccoli
it’s how poor countries survive. Rich countries are fat and have cardiovascular problems
let’s do meal prep for a family of 6.
vegan meal:
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$.48 - 1 cup rice - 205 calories
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$1.14 - 3 large carrots - 90 calories
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$.32 - 1/2 cup peas - 58 calories
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$.48 - 1/2 cup lentils - 130 calories
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food volume: 3 cups
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total calories: 483
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volume per serving: 1/2 cup
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calories per serving: 80.5
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total cost: $2.42
average meal:
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$2.74 - 1 cup of Hamburger Helper - 140 calories
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$7.23 - 1 pound of beef - 1152 calories
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$.50 - 3 2/3 cup of milk - 390 calories
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food volume: 3 cups
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total calories: 1682
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volume per serving: 1/2 cup
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calories per serving: 280
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total cost: $10.47
healthy mealtime caloric intake should be between 300-500 calories. both meals are still under the recommended calories, but only one of them dangerously so.
it would take 3 times the vegan meals volume in order to come close to what the average meal has. that’s a whopping 1 1/2 cups of food per serving and still falls short of the 300 calorie minimum.
it’s far easier to meet caloric intake using meat than with vegan diets.
a vegan meal may be cheaper and more nutritional, but Americans are working two or more jobs. meal prep is difficult when you’re mentally and physically drained. when you’re tired, broken, depressed, the last thing you want is food that doesn’t make you feel good, satisfied, or comforted.
I think vegans often overlook the barriers to entry into a strictly vegan diet and are blinded by their own hubris. if this isn’t true, then the vegan struggle to convert nonbelievers wouldn’t be so difficult, would it?
Nice shifting of the goal post! At first it’s too expensive, now it doesn’t have the right density and takes too much time to prepare?
Apart from that, you already get most of your nutrition from plants: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/calorie-supply-by-food-group
This is not because people don’t eat as much meat, but rather because meat is really inefficient in providing energy when it comes down to farm area.
Veganism might not solve all our problems, but it’s an easy way of getting rid of a lot of environmental problems. Apart from the direct impacts, we could start regrowing the amazon forest instead of cutting it down even further https://ourworldindata.org/what-has-driven-deforestation-in-the-21st-century
I do agree, that it’s - depending on where you live, the USA is really fucked up - not always easy to switch to being vegan, but it’s definitely a societal problem, not a technical one.
Nice shifting of the goal post! At first it’s too expensive, now it doesn’t have the right density and takes too much time to prepare?
the goalposts never moved. the volume it would take to equal the same caloric intake would be more expensive and impossible to consume.
ever tried to eat a whole cup of rice in one sitting? you’ll throw up. if you’re fortunate enough to eat three meals a day you’ll be eating 3 cups of rice daily, and that’s per person.
in a six person family that’s 3 pounds of rice per meal! at $1.77 per 2 pound bag of rice. in a month the 6 person family would consume 90 pounds at $159 in rice alone. include all the other ingredients and it’s costly.
Literally multiply your vegan recipe by four and suddenly you have more calories per serving than your meat recipe, and it’s still fucking cheaper.
God, you’re bad at math.
You’re dumb everywhere aren’t you
volume and meal prep is the problem now?
are you eating the pound of beef raw?
if you can’t understand the problem after I literally spoonfed you, I can’t help you.
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do you know what the highest part of a grocery bill is? the vegetables.
This just isn’t true
if you were to account for the volume in which you need them to meet equal caloric intake per day, yes, it is.
fresh produce is not shelf stable and frozen is limited in scope to what is available.
the vast majority of poor Americans live in rural locations that have limited access to regular fresh produce. instead they opt for shelf stable staples that are cheap and high in calories.
Vegans dont eat only vegetables, they eat grains like rice, as well as a wide range of legumes. Ive found replacing meat with a plant based protein source to be cheaper not more expensive.
Vegetables are far cheaper than meat?
Like a bag of rice and lentils/beans is next to nothing.
i just saw at the shops, an 20kg bag of rice was $30. do you have any idea how long 20KG of rice would last? a long long long time. It’s simply not possible that buying FEWER ingredients (i.e. no meat) could be more expensive than buying more ingredients.
And beans are hella calorie dense depending on the kind
Beans are one of the corner stones of my diet and damn are they good and cheap
Both can be true. While I believe eating meat is unethical I also don’t blame people for being so reliant on it, especially low-income people. I realize people are more focused on survival and don’t really give it much thought. I think if you can afford to not eat meat, than you shouldn’t eat meat. Veganism is a privilege in a sense because of the higher price tags. It’s not something every one can afford certainly. I hope that changes some day. If you eat meat, I have nothing against you. I ate it too for the longest time.
holy shit! you’re the first levelheaded vegan I have ever met.
I’m more so vegetarian. I eat cheese and eggs still.
Likewise, about once or twice a month I’ll eat meat if I go out to eat with friends to a restaurant but that’s only if the vegetarian options don’t sounds very good to me.
it’s one of the best things you can do as an individual, among others.
like using paper straws? or using reusable cups from starbucks? or turning my AC up above 78°F?
myths. all myths. you want to stop global warming? break out the guillotine and start rolling the heads of every single person with a wealth over $100 million.
Appeal to futility.
Cant fix everything? Why bother doing anything.
I’m not trying to fix everything. I’m just trying to focus all my efforts into something that will solve the problem.
we’re in a burning building and you are claiming you’re helping by not drinking water.
Then what are you even trying to fix? I just see you arguing against veganism, not proposing anything else.
you’re the one that was proposing broken solutions to a climate problem. I was just pointing out the misconception that you individually doing anything has any real significant impact.
I suppose if an individual could do anything that would have any significant impact they could take a page from Luigi’s manifesto.
personally I think it’s foolish to believe that people in this day and age would come together without some kind of individual incentive. sure, you and your 3% can come together but again…not any significant impact.
as Archimedes said, “Give me the place to stand, and I shall move the earth.”
it’s not about finding a solution but rather the proper amount of leverage. how does being vegan bring leverage against those who compel and feed global climate change? all it does is flaunt a misplaced sense of moral superiority so you can attempt to shame others into compliance. it’s such a weak stance that I doubt vegans truly believe it, which is why vegans are such a loud and outspoken minority.
Consequences are coming regardless. Most people are going to keep living their lives as best they can.
I stopped eating meat. I still eat cheese and eggs but i’m happy I finally gave it up. It’s been a little over a month and I really don’t miss it.
Unless industry is brought to heel, we could reduce our footprint to 0 and still be totally fucked.
The lifestock industry alone is responsible for 15% to 20% of the greenhouse emissions, so wiping it out would make huge impact on it’s own. Even if you forbade just cattle it would reduce 10% of global emissions.
Plus the emissions from agriculture moving to something else, still need the food.
Cows only convert 4% of the protein they eat into meat, and industrial level production relies heavily on agricultural production for that protein (most soy is produced to feed cows, for example).
If we removed industrial meat production, we would need far less farm land and consequently have less emissions from agriculture. We would also not have so much deforestation.
