This is some real shitty, blatant propaganda. The gas station kratom derivatives are some real shady shit a la the synthetic cannabinoids and ‘spice’ mixes that used to go around, and the ‘bath salts’ versions of research chemicals that were unreliable and untested. But the plant itself is virtually harmless compared to every other recreational substance. Especially alcohol. And these ‘ties’ that this researcher supposedly has to the American Kratom Association, a totally grassroots organization that is struggling to compete against professional lawmakers and lobbyists, is that they paid for his airfare and hotel rooms for certain speaking engagements. Fucking pharma reps are out here buying cars and watches and prostitutes for doctors, but he’s not allowed to have his plane ride paid for? Get fucked. This is a totally bullshit article regardless how you personally feel about kratom.
Kratom is insidious as fuck. I know three people who have successfully used it to quit heroin, and an equal number of people (including myself) who ended up addicted to it for years. I have two friends who were using 15-20 grams daily before they quit. We’re all fully off of it now with zero interest in picking it up again, but it’s pretty awful shit.
Sounds likes it’s a lot better than being hooked on heroin.
I read stories about people getting hooked on the stuff and I don’t entirely understand. I took 3-6 grams (3 g twice in a day) per day 3 or 4 days a week and never got hooked for months. Maybe the people who get hooked are using it for pain mgmt or the more opioid effects, but at stim doses it just felt nice, never jonesy. That said, got off due to not knowing the heavy metal concentrations and lack of regulation.
If youve never touched the stuff and arent on harder shit, just dont bother, not worth the FAFO.
For those 3 people that got off horsey that seems like it was a life changing substance for them though.
Like any addictive substance if you take it every day you’re going to get physically and mentally addicted.
It’s not sold, marketed, or regulated as an addictive substance though, which is a huge fucking problem and a big part of the issue.
They sell it in little bottles as an “herbal energy supplement” on gas station counters, right next to the 5 hour energy drink. Some companies basically market it as a health tonic.
I’m all for people doing what they want, but the industry intentionally makes that hard do so in an informed and responsible fashion.
You are right about this it should be labelled properly
You know those little bottles of drugs arent even the same from store to store, right?
Dozens, thousands of different people bulk buy that packaging and bottles from china, and put whatever the fuck they can get into them. Same bottle, same packaging, same name, 30 minutes down the road can have a completely different drug in it.
The random pills and potions at the gas station shouldn’t exist - I don’t think any reasonable person would disagree with that. They are categorically different in terms of risk. As such, the responsible vendors and quality products should be differentiated from the garbage out there.
The concern, as someone who is helped greatly by this product, is that any attempt to ban the dangerous products will end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater - as gov’t is wont to do with such things.
Literally everything is addictive. Alcohol isn’t sold as an addictive substance yet it gets a pass for some reason
I tried Kratom once. I spent the night in the hospital where I supposedly stopped breathing 3 times.
I’ve used it to lessen my use of Adderall for narcolepsy and it’s been a lifesaver.
I mixed about 2 tsp into water in the afternoon when I’m dragging, rather than taking more prescription stimulant. I use it between 1-3 times a week for at least 5 years, with several month long breaks in this time.
I think the weird derivative chemicals from it are probably dangerous, but I personally haven’t experienced any problems with routine kratom use. I only use the powdered plant form I order from a reputable source, not the gas station drinks with synthetic versions.
Similar story here - it undoubtedly has improved my quality of life. I too use it as a kind of “herbal adderall”, and only use plain leaf powder from a trusted vendor with many years in the business who provides testing data and tests every single incoming batch for contaminants.
It has addictive qualities, sure, but the safety profile is similar to coffee or cannabis. The benefits, for me at least, far outweigh any risks, which are minimal to begin with.
Here’s an uplifting video on kratom.
This is not about kratom. It’s about a synthetic derivative. If people were writing about the harmful effects of JWH-018 or ‘spice’ and calling it ‘marijuana’ would that seem reasonable to you? Because that’s whats happening here.
Kratom is revolting stuff.
Prescription painkillers are worse by several orders of magnitude. There’s a reason why the DEA gave up on trying to ban kratom.
Kratom’s way less dangerous than alcohol. Every year alcohol kills more people in the US then all of the illegal drugs combined.
If you’re gonna start Crusading against drugs, you better start with alcohol.
How is appealing for scientific transparency in research (i.e lack of disclosure of industry funding) turning into a crusade against drugs? This is the Science Community afterall. Not saying you’re not wrong, but it’s directionally a “whataboutism” instead of addressing the topic at hand.
And if you’re going to get into whataboutism, there are and have been massive campaigns against alcohol usage, and I can think of at least a few incidents of scientists publishing without disclosure of industry funding. “1 glass of wine a day is great for your health!” kind of shenanigans.
Anyway, you’re not wrong if your argument is that there are bigger fish to fry, but that doesn’t really address OPs thread in the slightest. :)
because ignorant people spout ignorant opinions, and dbzer0 users are take pride in their ignorance and delusional thinking as to most self-avowed anarchists… they basically think alternative is always good because they see themselves as alternative.
Kratom is less dangerous because less people use it.
Bad reactions to Kratom are sometimes as high as 30% whereas alcohol is much lower unless you are Asian and alcohol intolerant.
I think both are generally safe if taken in moderation though.
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Edit: Hate all you want, kratom saved my life and I am eternally grateful for it. Read my reply to the other person for the full story. Original post below:
So what if they’re addicted? It’s a (relatively) safe addiction.
If you have ADHD, depression, or chronic pain, kratom can be a lifesaver. It takes years to build a tolerance and unlike prescription opiates, there’s no respiratory depression, therefore no risk of overdose.
If you want to get mad about something, get mad at the pharmaceutical industry for pushing opiates upon people when there’s a much safer alternative.
The biggest risk of kratom is getting a dosage of heavy metals along with the powder, but if you buy from reputable vendors who lab test their product, it’s a non-issue.
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Well I can’t tell you this much: Kratom saved my life, so I get a little bit offended when people try to talk shit about it when there are actual deadly drugs out there killing people, and many of them are legal.
Just like with every substance, it’s about moderation. Kratom can become addictive just like gambling can if you have the personality for it. If you treat it like a pharmaceutical and stay consistent with your dosage, you have nothing to worry about.
Now the reason why I say kratom saved my life is because it is the one substance I found that can actually make me a functioning adult who can contribute to society. I have AuHD and was a NEET until my 30s, being an absolute drain on my parents’ resources. I just could not hold down a job. I’d get sick of working after a month, and decide to stop coming in. My bosses would stress me out, I’d have a panic attack, and then just walk out the door, never to return. The doctors tried. I’ve been given all sorts of antidepressants, bipolar meds, stimulants, benzos…Nothing worked. Or in the case of stims like Adderall, they’d work the first few times and then I feel completely and utterly miserable for the rest of the month.
But then at the age of 31, someone introduced me to the Green Maeng Da strain at a family gathering and it changed my life forever. For the very first time in my life, I felt like a normie. I was able to smile and joke around with people, talk to strangers, and my anxiety was gone. Like completely. I never felt this way in my life!
Fast forward a decade: I am now able to not only hold down a job, I now have a paid off car, a house, beautiful girlfriend who I am going to marry one day. And it’s all thanks to kratom. It woke something up in me and I am eternally grateful to that family member who showed me that I don’t have to keep trying various medications that don’t work.
So needless to say, this is why the “fuck kratom” people offend me. I would have been an unemployed loser for the rest of my life if it weren’t for it. The crazy part is that it keeps consistently working, day after day. I don’t understand why I’m not building a tolerance to this stuff but I’m grateful it worked out that way. But again, maybe it’s because I treat it as a serious medication, and not just something to get high off of.
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Damn, you replied before I could finish my edit… :/
Thanks, but I’ll be alright. Already got all the luck I need from kratom. Like I said, it kicked my ass into gear and made me a functioning adult. Even if it’s as dangerous as some people claim, I’ll take that chance, because the alternative is homelessness. My parents are dead now, so if I quit, I will stop going into work and my girlfriend will break up with me. I have nobody else. Kratom is the one thing preventing that from happening.
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It’s bad for your gut, it’s bad for your liver, it’s bad for your brain, it’s bad for your skin.
Whatever bullshit you’re telling yourself here is false. Replacing cigarettes with cocaine because cocaine won’t give you lung cancer is fucking brain damaged thinking.
Don’t care. Please read my reply the the other person. I rather risk brain, liver, and skin damage than go homeless.
Alright, you do you - just be careful. Hopefully you find yourself in a better situation someday where you won’t need something to get you through the day.
This kind of stuff becomes more interesting when you take in account that not everyone functions the same.
For me, it didn’t really do much other than tingle my tongue. My buddies though it was amazing. But I also have a very high opioid tolerance; I would take 40-60 mg of oxy for physical therapy briefly, when it was supposed to be 5 mg every four hours, to get my leg back into working condition, the surgeon was surprised that I regained all of my function in a month. That’s after having a bunch of screws and a metal rod jammed inside of my leg for context. They gave me tramadol as well, which I stopped taking after a few days because I heard screaming and yelling (auditory hallucinations) while on the toilet. Daily Ibuprofen use will make you bleed out your yass. Daily Tylenol use will make your liver die faster than drinking everyday. I’ll be in chronic pain for the rest of my life, but hey I got to keep my leg, so I’ll just have myself a beer.
Just like any other drug, if you use it every single day you’re going to get addicted and have problems.
Its hard to feel sorry for someone who does that. Learn some self control. I’ve been through heroin withdrawals in my youth as well as the seizures that come with benzo withdrawals and I figured out before I was 19 “huh, it seems like if I take these drugs every day I’m going to get addicted”
Its common sense.
It really is not that hard to skip a couple days here and there even if you’re a fiend. And if you’re a poly drug addict just switch drugs every 3 days or so. I did that for a time after 19 and I did it heavy and had zero withdrawals when I quit doing it that way. So there’s really no excuse for that shit. Learn how to control your addictions or go to rehab.
The drug war sure isn’t working though, is it? The courts ruin way more lives than addiction does.
Idk what the answer is but this prohibition across the board is stupid and doesn’t actually help anyone.
I find myself hating the physical drugs existence less and less and hating the addict who lacks any modicum of self control more and more as time goes on. Go through the withdrawals and move on, no excuse.
There seems to be a significant percentage of the population that needs its hand held for every single thing. That’s why we can’t get OTC antibiotics, that’s why they won’t prescribe pain pills anymore to people who need them, that’s why they have created a prison system that is the most filled per capita of any country even though we aren’t even close to the size of others. People who lack self control have ruined it for others who know how to manage medications/drugs effectively and not do it every single day and then act surprised when they start having withdrawals.
I know people who can’t get pain medicine (again because of all the fucking addicts who lack any self control ruining it for everyone else) and kratom and 7OH is all they have to manage that pain. So of course its going to be demonized. Can’t have people being helped if it can make them feel warm and tingly as a side effect.
I think you should be applauded for, and encouraged to, share your experiences. But they are your experiences, not universal experiences.
The fact that people do get addicted to things all the time would suggest that the “self-control” picture isn’t as simple as all that.
Some people who get addicted to a drug, or to gambling, or to other things, are, to all appearances, accomplished, capable, put-together people with settled lives. People who clearly have demonstrated self-control in other contexts.
Fuck off with some of those opinions. Everyone is different, generalizing like you’re doing is toxic. You’ve had your experiences, you can’t compare those to others.
Yeah this feels very much like margeawanna talk from the 80’s and people seem to be drinking the koolaid.
bro you’re not gonna get addicted to ibuprofen
