Can I get a smug lecture on how you’re choosing the third, disconnected track?
Oh my God we need ranked choice voting, it should be a top priority but I never hear it even mentioned. It fixes so many issues and obliterates the 2 party system. But we just can’t have nice things.
The current two parties in your amazing country don’t want it, therefore it will never happen
https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/ranked-choice-voting/endorsers/
What % of them do you think are Republicans? I think they put one the only ones right there at the top to make it seem more bipartisan than it is.
The reality is that one party is far more united and steadfast against ranked choice, and it’s the party that would lose power because of it.
Alaska has ranked choice voting. But the viable independent is in Nebraska and the dsa candidates are in new York, Colorado, and Michigan. Minnesota has had farmer-labor candidates since ever, but if you don’t live in Minnesotta, we just call them democrats.
We do need ranked choice voting. But it will not destroy the two party system.
STAR voting might, or an approval vote. I used to stan AV, but I think STAR is better.
Keep pushing on that, bub and we’ll just get rid of voting 😠
Growing up on the Mexican side of the border, that Mexican flag should be the other way. The “friendly democrats” would often say things to me like: “If we don’t let Mexicans in, who’s going to pick the fruit / clean the house / make good breakfast burritos” gee thanks
My general experience has been that the average centrist Democrat sees immigrants as “good cheap labor”, not people.
While it is true that centrist democrats don’t really see other ethnicites as people speaking broadly, they’ll still view an individual immigrant as a person.
When I go over to a democrats home they can be ignorant about what’s happening with migrants, but there no doubt in mind I’ll get to leave safely.
I celebrated thanksgiving with one of my friend’s family that is conservative, and there was a part of me that wondered if I would get to leave alive. It’s as if they were trying to rage bait me by saying the most heinous shit while brandishing guns and holding their holster when I turned to speak. Another time, I was with my partner’s family and her brother who’s a manager of a grocery store was complaining that he wished he could ban all non English speakers from coming into the store.
Both are not the best, but I can speak freely with democrats whereas a conservative may blow my head off if I say something they disagree with.
Oh yeah, there’s a huge gulf between the two. Both are pretty shitty, but one is cartoon villain shitty.
It frustrates me that the US doesn’t have an off ramp out of this. They really need that third option (or fourth or fifth), but there’s no realistic way to get to it electorally in a timeframe that matters.
Maybe something like “the top one only ties one arm across the tracks”? Like, you’re getting fucked, but not quite as badly?
It frustrates me that the US doesn’t have an off ramp out of this. They really need that third option (or fourth or fifth)
They really need an electoral system that makes a third or fourth or fifth option viable, like proportional representation or ranked choice of some kind. But…
there’s no realistic way to get to it electorally in a timeframe that matters.
I suspect that timeframe may be decades. You’d have to educate enough people who aren’t yet dug into " this is how we’ve always done it" about the problems of the system, convince them of a better alternative and, macabre as it may sound, wait for the old and stubborn “I don’t want to learn anything new” to die off.
The truth of the matter, as it’s often the way, it’s there’s nuances
- If you’re in a blue safe seat - vote third
- If you’re in a swing state - vote blue no matter who
- If you’re in a red state - vote blue no matter who
This is the way. As a voter it often feels like your vote doesnt matter. But the thing is focus on local elections. Vote in every election your allowed. Especially those off season elections have low turnout, and your vote matters much more. This is how you get demsoc candidates into positions of influence who can work their way up.
The republican party is full on fasc. No matter where you are dont vote for them. Make the red states have to cheat so obviously that the courts have to get involved. Swing states vote blue, but if you were voting in the local elections, and primaries theres a good chance your blue candidate isnt a centrist. If your in a solid blue state vote for the third party to show the centrist dems that you dont want a centrist, and that their hold is precarious. If youre lucky to have a leftist candidate on the ballot in a blue state vote for them.
This is the best way to tell the party how to win. They will ignore you, and they will fight you. But if their base votes hard left consistently they have to listen, or they lose to leftists.
There is always the secret option!
DEJA VU
seems to me that actively sabotaging any effort into making a connection to the third track so that no one has to die is a REAL ass hole move.
We can try to do 2 things at once, but you can’t deny that all those people that chose not to vote “in protest” during the last presidential election didn’t seem to do a THING towards supporting a 3rd party or setting up ranked choice voting.
They protested by staying in, we got the worse option of the 2, more people are hurt than would have been under “the other guy”, and we have nothing good to show for it.
People who don’t want to vote didn’t even show up to the polls to write in a common name. Disappointing.
if that’s so then representing this as the troley problem is EXTRA poiniant.
the troley problem is a problem, because it’s answer is debated. with the whole argument being either utilitarian, or deontology.
you just validated everyone who didn’t vote, good jorb there.
and as a utilitarian myself, i have to give you guys props on that self own. because you altered the trolly problem, the only valid options are deontology, or building the track away from the D. amazing jorb
Maybe if you used you political system as intended instead of just telling people they’ve got to vote they’d engage more.
Cool, but we live in reality, I love your ideas, but this is the real world
the REAL world has the election far enough out that preemptive adoption of a genocide is an unnecessary evil.
the REAL world has the D also with the same heads on the rail as R.
the REAL world has idiots posting this as a trolley problem, thus validating everyone who didn’t vote.
the REAL world has people using propaganda like this, who’s REAL goal is the continuation of genocide.
Sounds like you’re a conspiracy nutter to me
There weren’t even enough third party votes in total that could have swayed the election for Kamala.
Why are you wasting energy punching left?
Grow up
Persuading people to vote 3rd party is just one piece of the puzzle. Some will vote 3rd, others stay home and some morons can be convinced to vote for the pedophile party. It adds up.
3rd parties are also convenient in sewing doubt in the D candidate. If you show people there’s an obscure party that will offer world peace and free healthcare, D voters will be disappointed in their candidate, but the R voters don’t even hear the message.
The US election system is complete garbage, but you have to play with the D or R rules.
The US election system is complete garbage, but you have to play with the D or R rules.
You don’t have to at all. And the line of reasoning that makes someone vote for democrats despite their many many many issues, is a line of reasoning that logically concludes at voting third party.
All right, a third Trump term it is!
It would be functionally similar to a democrat, so yes, in essence your line of reasoning leads to a third trump term no matter what.
Truly the fashos are the same as the entire establishment. Feel free to keep enabling the nazis while patting yourself on the back. The political system in the US practically does not allow for third parties, and even if you manage to replace one party with something better that doesn’t solve the fundamental long term issue. Pushing for electoral reform one way or another does not mean you can’t at least put in a meaningful vote against the fashos.
Feel free to keep enabling the nazis while patting yourself on the back.
Sorry, I just said I won’t vote for democrats
So you’ll get either your 3rd party candidate (you won’t), or Trump’s third. Hard to see why you’d want that, but I guess we all have our reasons.
Regardless of strategic validity, I think “accept genocide X to postpone genocide Y” is just not a very hopeful message, and thus is not likely to encourage voter turnout or any political action
More importantly, when someone proves that they’re willing to trade human lives for the sake of power, why wouldn’t you assume they will make the same trade for yours? When someone tells you they’re a snake, believe them.
Every politician does this because every cycle uses utilitarian choice. They try to support the greater good, and that will disenfranchise people/entire groups of people.
We’re inching towards climate wars because of how we treat our planet. It’ll only get worse unless we stop this.
Oh, so you guys are just gonna start acting like the Democratic party isn’t bigoted and evil? Is that really necessary to make the argument that the Republican party can’t be in power? You’re talking about the only real federal parties in the United States, the most destructive imperialist entity in human history.
When I see narratives like, “the Democratic party isn’t going to kill queer people,” I wonder if any of you even think of victims of US imperialism as people. Even within the metropole’s borders, how many women have died because the Democratic Party used abortion as a vote hostage? How many disabled people have died because they refused to guarantee healthcare (social programs aren’t the same, and do not establish the requirement of their own existence)?
These people are all imperialists, they’re evil, and the system they benefit from has to end for any of us to be safe. You can just say “the Republican Party is too successful with overt bigotry go be legitimized,” or, “we don’t need voting to be moral for it to be an exercise of our power.” You don’t have to fucking say that a genocidal, capitalist, imperialist institution is somehow only bad to one group of people (which makes it evil anyway).
Why did the democratic party leadership tie the palestinians to the upper set of tracks? Sure seems like they have chosen not to do that? But since they knew they’d get a pass from voters like OP, and thought they could still win while taking those aipac bribes, they decided to cash those aipac checks, right? And they are STILL doing it, isnt that right?
People like u/godric (OP) like to pretend this trolley problem just arose out of nowhere, but it didnt did it. It was contrived to be this choice. Kind of like a hostage situation with the party’s own voters-- voters who overwhelmingly do not support war crimes.
Not to mention all of those flags are also on the track of the democratic party. People like OP just don’t care when it’s their team doing it - Probably because it gets less play in the media.
The Progressive Except Palestine line.
And deportations, police state, climate, womens’ rights, queer rights, militarism, warmongering, and so on…
What do you call a Nazi collaborator?
Quisling is the typical term, i would argue for “democrat” but they’re Nazis too, so not so much collaborator about them.
Farther up the tracks, long ago already crossed, lie the remains of every single flag tied to the Paris Climate Accords.
And a voter who didnt pull a lever.
The Climate Accords were a pointless do-nothing treaty with nothing to make any country uphold its’ obligations. Signing it or not meant nothing and means nothing. While being signatories the US under the democrats never even approached upholding the accords. After Biden got elected he handed out fracking contracts like nobodys’ business, so it pretty clearly did not matter to him or the party. There is so far only one country slated to reach the goals set by the accords and you’re going to cry foul at what country that is.
edit: You can downvote the comment all you want, it does not make it less true. The Climate Accords has no provisions to make signatories follow it, the US has never come close to begin to approaching the goals set by the accord, Biden did hand out a bunch of new fracking contracts, and there is only one country so far that is expected to hit the goals set by the accords. Have you actually read the Paris Agreement?
I repeat myself: none if you morons bringing up the trolley problem understand what the trolley problem is.
It also presumes the democrats automatically lose if people here don’t vote for them, in which case… Shouldnt the democrats listen to the people here, if they wanted to win?
But it’s the only framework where I’m a hero and nothing is my fault. We can’t just move on!
I repeat myself
You only said that once though. Checkmate.
So, the primaries didn’t go well? Or hopefully you’re just reusing the meme from last time?
This is a 2 year old meme, yep! It’s funny how the same pattern of “both sides” peddled bullshit pops up right before an election.
“Don’t vote, they’re both the same! Vote for the obscure third party candidate, they pinky promised to fix everything just like you want it!”
Meanwhile, the US has a REPUBLICAN pedophile president whose worst act so far was to start a completely pointless war throwing the world into an economic crisis. He also dismantled the efforts of the previous DEMOCRAT president to advance green technology in the US. We still haven’t seen the full implications of it all. But yeah, both are the same, corporations control everything, no point in voting yadda yadda.
It might be doing the Democrats a disservice, then, given that they may or may not have shifted towards opposing the genocide. (I couldn’t find a conclusive result by searching for the answer)
The only thing Democrats did was conclude they had to get more racist, as they do after every election wether they win or lose
They did not
If people don’t choose the third track, it will never be finished getting built. And clearly having only 2 tracks isn’t working.
Build the track…
You can’t switch a car to inbuilt tracks. It must be built before it can be picked.
You have to act in the reality that exists, not wish for the reality you desire.
You keep building towards the good tracks when no car is coming, but when the car approaches you have a choice. You don’t get to not make a choice. Deciding to not pull is a choice. Deciding to pull in a direction with no tracks is effectively the same choice.
People want the 3rd track for President only. I’m not seeing many 3rd tracks being built for any other government position. This argument gets brought up every 2 years and then disappears because it’s easier to complain than to actually fix things. Right next to gerrymandering: the argument only exists right before elections, then it disappears.
