When Ed Sheeran played the victim card after the Macklemore fallout, he did what all Israel appeasers do: he pretended genocide is too complicated to understand.
ah yes, Hamas is embedded so thoroughly we have to shoot people waiting for food aid after we carpet bombed their house And dont get me started on journalists, the Associated Press should be designated an international sponsor of terrorism.
If you must try to hold on to this idea that Israel is acting in good faith when they mow the lawn ❌thin the population❌ erase gaza❌ defend themselves ✅ from human animals❌ amalek❌ Hamas ✅ by bombing hospitals and schools you could at least admit that IDF fucks up a lot. Like a suspicious amount.
“We’ll see what is remembered 50 years from now” is a remarkable thing to say while defending collective punishment, considering we already have a thorough and tragic historical record.
The last century gave us genocide, mass civilian killing, collective punishment, and entire populations being blamed for the actions of governments and armed groups.
The humanitarian laws written in response explicitly rejected the exact moral logic you are invoking here.
You are not offering some hardheaded lesson from history. You are resurrecting an argument the last century already taught us to reject.
Instead of predicting how history will remember this, maybe you should read some.
“We’ll see what is remembered 50 years from now” is plainly an appeal to future historical judgment. You used it to wave away criticism in the present.
You do not get to hide behind the fact that you left the prediction deliberately vague. The implication was the entire point of the sentence.
If you meant nothing by it, then it was meaningless. If you meant what any ordinary reader would understand it to mean, then yes, you were invoking how history would judge this.
No. The fact that people still commit atrocities does not mean those atrocities were never rejected.
People still murder. People still torture. People still commit genocide. That does not make murder, torture, or genocide accepted principles.
Collective punishment was explicitly rejected in international humanitarian law after the horrors of the last century.
And “but the Muslim world” is not a defense of your argument. It is just pointing at someone else.
You defended collective punishment. You minimized the suffering of innocent civilians. You justified that suffering as the consequence of political decisions made by a population decades ago.
Those were your words. They are still sitting there for everyone to read.
You cannot erase what you argued by pretending you argued something else.
Yes, these principles are violated constantly. But I think that is precisely why it matters that we continue to insist upon them.
You started by arguing that collective punishment is simply how international politics sometimes works. You pointed to Germany, to Gaza, and now to the prevalence of atrocities around the world.
But there is a danger in that reasoning. When “people do this all the time” becomes our answer to an atrocity, we begin normalizing the atrocity instead of opposing it.
Article 33 does not say collective punishment is prohibited only when the world is behaving itself. It prohibits it precisely because history demonstrated what happens when we accept collective guilt and the punishment of civilians as ordinary features of war.
Laws are only as meaningful as our willingness to uphold them.
It requires more than writing them down.
It requires the willingness to condemn violations where they occur, when they occur; friend or foe.
We must confront the scale of the destruction Israel has inflicted across Gaza. More than 170,000 structures, roughly 69 percent of Gaza’s prewar buildings, had already been damaged or destroyed by January 2025.
We should confront the conclusion reached by the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry after examining the broader pattern of killing, deprivation, destruction, displacement, and official conduct: that Israel has committed genocide in Gaza.
“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
Do not look at the frequency with which these principles are violated and conclude that resistance to them is futile. Draw the opposite conclusion.
Their violation is the reason we have to keep insisting upon them.
Demand better. Do not concede what is right simply because others have.
Even Germans who weren’t Nazis and may not have even voted for Hitler.
All the other dogshit that others are well enough covering aside, just a nitpick: Hitler ran for president and lost in 1932. Hindenburg won. Hindenburg then appointed Hitler as Chancellor, signed over most powers to him, dissolved the Reichstag a couple times, and died.
Even if he ran and lost repeatedly in elections, people still voted for Hitler.
That is a matter of historical record.
In the middle of his career he was as mainstream a politician in his adopted country, as they came.
Doing all the same work the rest of them did. Making speeches, strategizing, running the party…
Selling out the working class to the moneyed elites of the time.
.
Oh please. Acting like Israel hasn’t been killing Palestinians for decades. Imagine how Palestine could look now if Israel hadn’t been subjugating and oppressing them for the last 60+ years.
Both sides have been killing each other for decades. Palestinians killing Israelis, Israelis killing Palestinians. Neither side has clean hands in any of this.
Yea in a ratio of about 10 Palestinians per 1 Israeli. Neither side has clean hands. But one side sure is hell bent on completely genociding the other. This both sides shit you’re spewing is disgusting. Recognize that a genocide is taking place and is killing tens of thousands of innocents.
Israel won’t let the UN step in. UN buildings, programs, and investigators were some of the first targeted, and the US has veto power within the UN. One side has the capacity and is committing genocide, and when you bother to look at what they are saying in Israeli social networks, they are not shy about it. Israel also killed the alternatives for Hamas, bolstering it over the PA to prevent the possibility of a legitimate Palestinian state from rising.
Israel won’t let the UN step in. UN buildings, programs, and investigators were some of the first targeted, and the US has veto power within the UN.
I know, it was wishful thinking.
when you bother to look at what they are saying in Israeli social networks, they are not shy about it
Checking social networks is pointless. Hell, check German socials and you’d think that AfD has 99% votes already. Check US networks and it’s a literal civil war. Check Polish socials and half the country is already surrendered to russia.
Too much disinformation for socials to be any source of information.
It’s better to look at what was going on just before the attack - and that is: Netanyahu having around 30% support and multiple lawsuits being prepared against him, with people protesting on the streets.
Israel also killed the alternatives for Hamas
When was that? I know that Hamas won general elections in 2006 and no other elections have happened in Gaza ever since and, from what you’re saying, it seems that I missed another conflict that happened between then and now, where Fatah was eliminated.
Islamic fundamentalists are also not shy about it. You should listen to what they say, too.
Palestine is a tiny part of a very large middle east majority called Islam, they don’t concern themselves with such things as “states” and “borders”. According to them.
We agree, only the UN could enforce a “two-state solution”.
Left to their own devices, Palestinian or Israeli, (HAMAS vs. Zionist, Islam vs. Jew), genocide is their end goal per their own words. Not everybody. But the fundamentalists don’t respect the opinion of “anybody” or the rule of law, and they don’t negotiate in good faith, ever.
They both want dominion from the river to the sea. Neither will submit to the rule of the other. It’s time for us to give up that fantasy.
A lot of international troops would be required to “keep the peace”, and even then, murders will continue, just at a slower pace.
If the UN (not the USA) won’t keep the peace, we need to get Palestinian civilians out of there. This is an international war, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Iran, the Islamic Republic, HAMAS, Hezbollah, et al. aren’t going to negotiate peace, there are no terms the other would accept.
You will be “disciplined” for this point of view on Lemmy. Many here don’t even realize that all fundamentalist parties involved are dedicated to the total obliteration of the other. They don’t understand that this is international, not Israeli vs. Palestinian, but more Jews vs. Islam (which is in itself a gross simplification).
Others want all of these millions of Israelis to “disappear”, as if they have somewhere to go. Others want… more.
You will be “disciplined” for this point of view on Lemmy.
I know. I don’t care. So far it’s all been a bunch of angry foaming-at-the-mouth emotionalism and name calling in the replies.
I have my own views. Others have theirs.
You’re just straight up being a fascist. Like you deadass are justifying genocide. There already were tons of hospitals and infrastructure! Israel levelled all of them! And that’s despite the fact that Israel regularly restricted access to electricity and food BEFORE October 7. Also most of Gaza’s population wasn’t even old enough to vote when Hamas was elected. Also If you think collective punishment is acceptable for electing someone deemed bad enough then I guess you’d be fine if Israelis and Americans were being mass murdered?
Dude you should lose custody of your children for saying shit like this.
I’m sorry? Him calling out how children are abused in wars (this isn’t exclusive to Hamas and has been documented around the world, especially African conflicts) means you should lose custody of children? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Wrong. Israel is the only one with the capacity to do it successfully.
(and let’s ignore here for a moment the fact that “Palestinian Genocide” has been on the tongues of people for at least 30 years, and during that time the population of Gaza has nearly doubled, that’s besides the point right now)
Hamas is absolutely attempting to commit genocide, and if given the tools, they wouldn’t bat an eyelid before pulling the trigger. It just so happens that the best they can do is murder some kids on a concert or fling rockets at crop fields and cities.
So in other words, only Israel has the capacity to and is committing genocide and Hamas doesn’t.
Why don’t you just admit you want to whatabout into justifying genocide? It would be more honest with yourself. A group who fantasizes about committing genocide is very different from a group capable of and actively committing it.
Why don’t you just admit you want to whatabout into justifying genocide?
Yeah, it might look like that if you’re stupid or also a fundamentalist.
My position is that both Israelis and Palestinians have a right to live there and since they can’t figure it out on their own, the UN should have the capacity to step in, provide a buffer, and kick out the settler criminals, ideally hang Netanyahu and whoever is in charge of Hamas, and then ensure both sides sit separated for as long as it takes for Palestine to normalise as a country.
You, I take it, are of the opinion that since Israel is the stronger of the two, Hamas has the right to murder them indiscriminately in their “fight for freedom”?
Your gaslighting is bad and you should feel bad. You don’t need to commit a genocide to handle a terrorist group. There are people who have rescinded their support for Israel after initially giving it to them after the 7th of October.
To paraphrase myself from other comments:
Israel won’t let the UN step in. UN buildings, programs, and investigators were some of the first targeted, and the US has veto power within the UN. One side has the capacity and is committing genocide, and when you bother to look at what they are saying in Israeli social networks, they are not shy about it. Israel also killed the alternatives for Hamas, bolstering it over the PA to prevent the possibility of a legitimate Palestinian state from rising.
To be completely honest, one, I’ve blocked you now, and two, I find your arguments to be several years out of place. Ask most of the UN members who stepped out if they still work.
This is wrong on many levels. Comparing a nation that went to war and the unfortunate reality of civilians getting caught in the crosshairs to civilians being massacred over a terrorist act is nonsensical.
Blaming civilians not involved in a war for a terrorist act is not the same. Furthermore, Netanyahu funded the said terrorist group. Perhaps you should get your vision checked?
I don’t blame civilians, I merely observe that they will also partake of collective punishments
brought on by the bad decisions of their political leaders. It is always so, in war. And they elected
those leaders, let us not forget…
'ISD analysis found that public figures contributed disproportionately to dehumanising ‘no innocents’ discourse, particularly in Hebrew. Of the top ten most reshared posts in the Hebrew-language dataset, three came from high-profile politicians supportive of ‘no innocents’ rhetoric, including a sitting member of the Knesset (MK)."
You dont agree with facts. Settler colonialism is genocidal by nature. You don’t destroy 83% of agricultural land and attack humanitarian aid if you dot plan to create a famine and force Gazan all out of gaza
Collective punishment isn’t a thing in modern warfare and is definitely a crime against humanity.
This is an example of a corrupt politician getting a shit ton of civilians killed to stay out of prison. Not something you get to respond with an ongoing civilian massacre to.
I know from their standpoint the Jews were “chosen” for certain things that’s recognised by almost all christian religions due to the suffering in egypt. The thing that should really alarm people about israel though is that they wouldn’t let the gazans leave the area to seek asylum elsewhere and even international citizens in the strip got caught up in this as well. I agree that it’s an extremely complex situation due to the history going back Millenia, not 80+ years.
I try not to invoke the religious angle. The subject is complicated enough without mixing theology into it. Others are free to do as they wish, but it seems like the
waters are muddied enough by themselves with just people’s flaming emotions, illogic, and ignorant opinions of non-religious things and events. There never was nor has been a Palestinian state, and the inhabitants of Palestine didn’t exactly thrive under the Ottoman Turks, either. Looking through history, both recent and distant, I can’t seem to find this golden age of independence and self sufficient self rule that the Palestinians imagine existed.
While I agree with the theology standpoint, unfortunately that & history (regardless of recognition, if it was most western countries that occupied the space they would have declared it theirs a long time ago) has made it complicated in the minds of people that occupy both regions.
The palestinians are treated as less-than and while there is a few people over there that could do with a firing squad personally I don’t think the population should be responsible for the decisions of their leaders, Instead of just bombing endlessly on civilians israel could have instead allowed humanitarians in to not only allow people to seek asylum but to let the international civilians out.
Either way while I agree that there isn’t always an option for peace, we will never have peace as long as we keep causing the terrorism feedback loop that just creates more terrorists. It’s like when you send a kid into prison, he just learns to become a better criminal.
Removed by mod
ah yes, Hamas is embedded so thoroughly we have to shoot people waiting for food aid after we carpet bombed their house And dont get me started on journalists, the Associated Press should be designated an international sponsor of terrorism.
If you must try to hold on to this idea that Israel is acting in good faith when they
mow the lawn❌thin the population❌erase gaza❌ defend themselves ✅ fromhuman animals❌amalek❌ Hamas ✅ by bombing hospitals and schools you could at least admit that IDF fucks up a lot. Like a suspicious amount.We’ll see what is remembered 50 years from now…
“We’ll see what is remembered 50 years from now” is a remarkable thing to say while defending collective punishment, considering we already have a thorough and tragic historical record.
The last century gave us genocide, mass civilian killing, collective punishment, and entire populations being blamed for the actions of governments and armed groups.
The humanitarian laws written in response explicitly rejected the exact moral logic you are invoking here.
You are not offering some hardheaded lesson from history. You are resurrecting an argument the last century already taught us to reject.
Instead of predicting how history will remember this, maybe you should read some.
I made no such prediction.
That is semantics after the fact.
“We’ll see what is remembered 50 years from now” is plainly an appeal to future historical judgment. You used it to wave away criticism in the present.
You do not get to hide behind the fact that you left the prediction deliberately vague. The implication was the entire point of the sentence.
If you meant nothing by it, then it was meaningless. If you meant what any ordinary reader would understand it to mean, then yes, you were invoking how history would judge this.
Current events worldwide demonstrate that the lesson has neither been learned, nor rejected- most particularly in the Muslim world…
No. The fact that people still commit atrocities does not mean those atrocities were never rejected.
People still murder. People still torture. People still commit genocide. That does not make murder, torture, or genocide accepted principles.
Collective punishment was explicitly rejected in international humanitarian law after the horrors of the last century.
And “but the Muslim world” is not a defense of your argument. It is just pointing at someone else.
You defended collective punishment. You minimized the suffering of innocent civilians. You justified that suffering as the consequence of political decisions made by a population decades ago.
Those were your words. They are still sitting there for everyone to read.
You cannot erase what you argued by pretending you argued something else.
Well then let’s just say these principles are honored more in the breach, than in the observance in today’s world.
Now that is a defensible argument.
Yes, these principles are violated constantly. But I think that is precisely why it matters that we continue to insist upon them.
You started by arguing that collective punishment is simply how international politics sometimes works. You pointed to Germany, to Gaza, and now to the prevalence of atrocities around the world.
But there is a danger in that reasoning. When “people do this all the time” becomes our answer to an atrocity, we begin normalizing the atrocity instead of opposing it.
Article 33 does not say collective punishment is prohibited only when the world is behaving itself. It prohibits it precisely because history demonstrated what happens when we accept collective guilt and the punishment of civilians as ordinary features of war.
Laws are only as meaningful as our willingness to uphold them.
It requires more than writing them down.
It requires the willingness to condemn violations where they occur, when they occur; friend or foe.
We must confront the scale of the destruction Israel has inflicted across Gaza. More than 170,000 structures, roughly 69 percent of Gaza’s prewar buildings, had already been damaged or destroyed by January 2025.
We should confront the conclusion reached by the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry after examining the broader pattern of killing, deprivation, destruction, displacement, and official conduct: that Israel has committed genocide in Gaza.
Do not look at the frequency with which these principles are violated and conclude that resistance to them is futile. Draw the opposite conclusion.
Their violation is the reason we have to keep insisting upon them.
Demand better. Do not concede what is right simply because others have.
I bet some Nazi said that too.
All the other dogshit that others are well enough covering aside, just a nitpick: Hitler ran for president and lost in 1932. Hindenburg won. Hindenburg then appointed Hitler as Chancellor, signed over most powers to him, dissolved the Reichstag a couple times, and died.
Even if he ran and lost repeatedly in elections, people still voted for Hitler. That is a matter of historical record. In the middle of his career he was as mainstream a politician in his adopted country, as they came. Doing all the same work the rest of them did. Making speeches, strategizing, running the party… Selling out the working class to the moneyed elites of the time. .
Oh please. Acting like Israel hasn’t been killing Palestinians for decades. Imagine how Palestine could look now if Israel hadn’t been subjugating and oppressing them for the last 60+ years.
Both sides have been killing each other for decades. Palestinians killing Israelis, Israelis killing Palestinians. Neither side has clean hands in any of this.
Yes, Israeli soldiers murder children, and then get attacked, and then go murder more children.
Never do the pussies bother to fight anyone in a uniform or anyone armed.
It’s always, “Oops, I had to blow up a children’s hospital again.” Fucking despicable.
Yea in a ratio of about 10 Palestinians per 1 Israeli. Neither side has clean hands. But one side sure is hell bent on completely genociding the other. This both sides shit you’re spewing is disgusting. Recognize that a genocide is taking place and is killing tens of thousands of innocents.
Both sides are, but one side has been doing a better job of it for the last 80 years than the other side.
I don’t agree it is a genocide, but I do think either side would be quite glad to see every belligerent member of the other side dead.
There are pro-Palestinian Jews in Israel just as there are Pro-Israeli Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank, though they are few.
.
In your opinion it would’ve been OK for Israel to retaliate if the ratio was closer to 1:1?
100% true.
You mean the side that had the “obliteration” of the other side mentioned multiple times in its charter?
Agreed. The UN should’ve stepped in a long time ago and provided much needed security.
Israel won’t let the UN step in. UN buildings, programs, and investigators were some of the first targeted, and the US has veto power within the UN. One side has the capacity and is committing genocide, and when you bother to look at what they are saying in Israeli social networks, they are not shy about it. Israel also killed the alternatives for Hamas, bolstering it over the PA to prevent the possibility of a legitimate Palestinian state from rising.
I know, it was wishful thinking.
Checking social networks is pointless. Hell, check German socials and you’d think that AfD has 99% votes already. Check US networks and it’s a literal civil war. Check Polish socials and half the country is already surrendered to russia.
Too much disinformation for socials to be any source of information.
It’s better to look at what was going on just before the attack - and that is: Netanyahu having around 30% support and multiple lawsuits being prepared against him, with people protesting on the streets.
When was that? I know that Hamas won general elections in 2006 and no other elections have happened in Gaza ever since and, from what you’re saying, it seems that I missed another conflict that happened between then and now, where Fatah was eliminated.
Islamic fundamentalists are also not shy about it. You should listen to what they say, too.
Palestine is a tiny part of a very large middle east majority called Islam, they don’t concern themselves with such things as “states” and “borders”. According to them.
Your weaponization of islamohpobia won’t work. Israel kill Muslims, Christians and atheist
We agree, only the UN could enforce a “two-state solution”.
Left to their own devices, Palestinian or Israeli, (HAMAS vs. Zionist, Islam vs. Jew), genocide is their end goal per their own words. Not everybody. But the fundamentalists don’t respect the opinion of “anybody” or the rule of law, and they don’t negotiate in good faith, ever.
They both want dominion from the river to the sea. Neither will submit to the rule of the other. It’s time for us to give up that fantasy.
A lot of international troops would be required to “keep the peace”, and even then, murders will continue, just at a slower pace.
If the UN (not the USA) won’t keep the peace, we need to get Palestinian civilians out of there. This is an international war, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Iran, the Islamic Republic, HAMAS, Hezbollah, et al. aren’t going to negotiate peace, there are no terms the other would accept.
I have a firm belief that any form of fundamentalism should be treated like a mental illness. So many things would improve in the world…
Palestine has a right to defend itself
Nat turner committed atrocities? Is Nat turner as bad as the slave owners?
You will be “disciplined” for this point of view on Lemmy. Many here don’t even realize that all fundamentalist parties involved are dedicated to the total obliteration of the other. They don’t understand that this is international, not Israeli vs. Palestinian, but more Jews vs. Islam (which is in itself a gross simplification).
Others want all of these millions of Israelis to “disappear”, as if they have somewhere to go. Others want… more.
It didn’t end with WW2 and the fall of the Nazis…
https://www.bbc.com/audio/play/w3ct5ymp
Yes, most of the time, I can’t tell if they are ignorant or just stupid.
Perhaps both, at the same time.
You will be “disciplined” for this point of view on Lemmy.
I know. I don’t care. So far it’s all been a bunch of angry foaming-at-the-mouth emotionalism and name calling in the replies. I have my own views. Others have theirs.
.
You’re just straight up being a fascist. Like you deadass are justifying genocide. There already were tons of hospitals and infrastructure! Israel levelled all of them! And that’s despite the fact that Israel regularly restricted access to electricity and food BEFORE October 7. Also most of Gaza’s population wasn’t even old enough to vote when Hamas was elected. Also If you think collective punishment is acceptable for electing someone deemed bad enough then I guess you’d be fine if Israelis and Americans were being mass murdered?
Yeah Hamas won the election in 2006. The majority of people living in Gaza are under 20.
How many times can Israeli soldiers murder Palestinian children for the crime of “rock-throwing” before you decide enough is enough?
Just pick a number. Any number.
What culture sends it children into harm’s way to antagonize armed soldiers? Answer: Palestinians.
Not old enough to shave a beard but old enough to wear a suicide vest… again… Palestinians…
Israel rape Palestinians children
Israelis
Dude you should lose custody of your children for saying shit like this.
I hope you are one day oppressed by the same shit you support for others.
I’m sorry? Him calling out how children are abused in wars (this isn’t exclusive to Hamas and has been documented around the world, especially African conflicts) means you should lose custody of children? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Hmm… that’s all ya got?
The fun thing is, I get to walk away and be me and you have to settle for being you.
How about we condemn both Hamas AND IDF for their crimes?
I know it’s a very novel approach but I think there might be a method in that madness.
OK so we can put you down for “It’s ok for soldiers to murder rock-throwing children”
Anyone else want to participate?
Turns out, this guy was wrong! It’s not just Twitter, it’s also Lemmy…
Some of us do. The problem is that only Israel has the capacity to and is committing genocide.
Wrong. Israel is the only one with the capacity to do it successfully.
(and let’s ignore here for a moment the fact that “Palestinian Genocide” has been on the tongues of people for at least 30 years, and during that time the population of Gaza has nearly doubled, that’s besides the point right now)
Hamas is absolutely attempting to commit genocide, and if given the tools, they wouldn’t bat an eyelid before pulling the trigger. It just so happens that the best they can do is murder some kids on a concert or fling rockets at crop fields and cities.
So in other words, only Israel has the capacity to and is committing genocide and Hamas doesn’t.
Why don’t you just admit you want to whatabout into justifying genocide? It would be more honest with yourself. A group who fantasizes about committing genocide is very different from a group capable of and actively committing it.
Yeah, it might look like that if you’re stupid or also a fundamentalist.
My position is that both Israelis and Palestinians have a right to live there and since they can’t figure it out on their own, the UN should have the capacity to step in, provide a buffer, and kick out the settler criminals, ideally hang Netanyahu and whoever is in charge of Hamas, and then ensure both sides sit separated for as long as it takes for Palestine to normalise as a country.
You, I take it, are of the opinion that since Israel is the stronger of the two, Hamas has the right to murder them indiscriminately in their “fight for freedom”?
Your gaslighting is bad and you should feel bad. You don’t need to commit a genocide to handle a terrorist group. There are people who have rescinded their support for Israel after initially giving it to them after the 7th of October.
To paraphrase myself from other comments:
To be completely honest, one, I’ve blocked you now, and two, I find your arguments to be several years out of place. Ask most of the UN members who stepped out if they still work.
Where gaslighting?
Are you gaslighting me right now?
Agreed. Never said otherwise.
While this is correct, how is it relevant to the discussion?
Which parts of “UN should” did you not understand?
Like, what are you even arguing here? Which specific points I made you disagree with and how?
This is wrong on many levels. Comparing a nation that went to war and the unfortunate reality of civilians getting caught in the crosshairs to civilians being massacred over a terrorist act is nonsensical.
Both situations look the same to me. YMMV. .
Blaming civilians not involved in a war for a terrorist act is not the same. Furthermore, Netanyahu funded the said terrorist group. Perhaps you should get your vision checked?
I don’t blame civilians, I merely observe that they will also partake of collective punishments brought on by the bad decisions of their political leaders. It is always so, in war. And they elected those leaders, let us not forget…
.
You are poison
Israeli voted for genocidal leaders. Aren’t you justifying october7 attrocities with your logic?
I don’t agree that Israe’s leaders are genocidal, so that makes the remainder of what you said completely moot in my mind.
https://www.isdglobal.org/digital-dispatch/no-innocents-the-collective-blame-of-palestinians-online/
'ISD analysis found that public figures contributed disproportionately to dehumanising ‘no innocents’ discourse, particularly in Hebrew. Of the top ten most reshared posts in the Hebrew-language dataset, three came from high-profile politicians supportive of ‘no innocents’ rhetoric, including a sitting member of the Knesset (MK)."
You dont agree with facts. Settler colonialism is genocidal by nature. You don’t destroy 83% of agricultural land and attack humanitarian aid if you dot plan to create a famine and force Gazan all out of gaza
I appreciate you do not blame the civilians.
I will repeat it was never a war.
Collective punishment isn’t a thing in modern warfare and is definitely a crime against humanity.
This is an example of a corrupt politician getting a shit ton of civilians killed to stay out of prison. Not something you get to respond with an ongoing civilian massacre to.
Actually they do blame the civilians.
I don’t think that ordinary right-thinking individuals would want this situation in its current form.
Unfortunately those are rarely the ones who are making the large scale decisions.
Particularly in recent times.
.
I know from their standpoint the Jews were “chosen” for certain things that’s recognised by almost all christian religions due to the suffering in egypt. The thing that should really alarm people about israel though is that they wouldn’t let the gazans leave the area to seek asylum elsewhere and even international citizens in the strip got caught up in this as well. I agree that it’s an extremely complex situation due to the history going back Millenia, not 80+ years.
I try not to invoke the religious angle. The subject is complicated enough without mixing theology into it. Others are free to do as they wish, but it seems like the waters are muddied enough by themselves with just people’s flaming emotions, illogic, and ignorant opinions of non-religious things and events. There never was nor has been a Palestinian state, and the inhabitants of Palestine didn’t exactly thrive under the Ottoman Turks, either. Looking through history, both recent and distant, I can’t seem to find this golden age of independence and self sufficient self rule that the Palestinians imagine existed.
While I agree with the theology standpoint, unfortunately that & history (regardless of recognition, if it was most western countries that occupied the space they would have declared it theirs a long time ago) has made it complicated in the minds of people that occupy both regions.
The palestinians are treated as less-than and while there is a few people over there that could do with a firing squad personally I don’t think the population should be responsible for the decisions of their leaders, Instead of just bombing endlessly on civilians israel could have instead allowed humanitarians in to not only allow people to seek asylum but to let the international civilians out.
Either way while I agree that there isn’t always an option for peace, we will never have peace as long as we keep causing the terrorism feedback loop that just creates more terrorists. It’s like when you send a kid into prison, he just learns to become a better criminal.