Further, when people treat voting as their primary means of political engagement, they do check out!
Citation needed. If this is the basis of why you think Voting Bad then you’re going to have to back that up with some science. Not quoting Lenin, I want a solid peer reviewed study.
If you don’t have that your entire reasoning falls on a hunch and vibes.
Personally I think voting helps people become more politically engaged, not less.
Since when did I say “voting bad?” I said that electoralism cannot bring about the change that is necessary. Regardless, the issue is that focusing political engagement on voting over organizing is what deflates organizational pressures, not the act of voting itself. Are you actually reading my arguments?
The closest direct source I found suggests that there is a negative correlation between system-justifying beliefs and collective anti-system action. If people believe voting legitimately is a means by which they can enact social change, they are less likely to organize against the system itself. This does not mean voting itself is against organizing, in fact organizers vote at higher rates than non-organizers. The importance here is that collective action is diminished when that is directed towards engaging with the system itself.
I never said that, though. Try directly responding to what I directly said. The problem isn’t the act of voting, it’s the treating of voting like it’s in fact the end-all be-all, like the DNC is the primary means by which any progress can be won, rather than an obstacle to progress.
The closest direct source I found suggests that there is a negative correlation between system-justifying beliefs and collective anti-system action. If people believe voting legitimately is a means by which they can enact social change, they are less likely to organize against the system itself. This does not mean voting itself is against organizing, in fact organizers vote at higher rates than non-organizers. The importance here is that collective action is diminished when that is directed towards engaging with the system itself.
Even reading through the abstract, this study is irrelevant to what we’re talking about here. They did a study that showed how people who are against the system and protest the system will inevitably butt heads with people who want to keep the system, the status quo.
Nowhere is it talking about voting, and that voting causes people to stop organizing.
The fact you said you “found” it instead of having that information on hand, and that you had to stretch to say this proves your theory means what I thought from the start.
The whole “people who vote will organize less” theory you state as absolute, the whole basis of your criticism, is made up. You assumed that this was true instead of checking. Shameful.
The study directly shows a negative correlation between those who believe the system represents a valid path to change, and those who organize against the system. This is my point. I did not say “people who vote will organize less,” I said funelling people into electoralism and treating it as the primary means of change deflates revolutionary organizing. These are distinct and separate points, and since you cannot argue against my actual point, you make up strawmen.
Citation needed. If this is the basis of why you think Voting Bad then you’re going to have to back that up with some science. Not quoting Lenin, I want a solid peer reviewed study.
If you don’t have that your entire reasoning falls on a hunch and vibes.
Personally I think voting helps people become more politically engaged, not less.
Since when did I say “voting bad?” I said that electoralism cannot bring about the change that is necessary. Regardless, the issue is that focusing political engagement on voting over organizing is what deflates organizational pressures, not the act of voting itself. Are you actually reading my arguments?
I’m also curious about evidence for this, if you have it. It seems self-evident to me (and also irrelevant tbh), but it’d be nice to know/have anyway
The closest direct source I found suggests that there is a negative correlation between system-justifying beliefs and collective anti-system action. If people believe voting legitimately is a means by which they can enact social change, they are less likely to organize against the system itself. This does not mean voting itself is against organizing, in fact organizers vote at higher rates than non-organizers. The importance here is that collective action is diminished when that is directed towards engaging with the system itself.
You don’t have to directly say “voting bad” when you’re saying it causes people to check out and not organize. Where’s the study?
I never said that, though. Try directly responding to what I directly said. The problem isn’t the act of voting, it’s the treating of voting like it’s in fact the end-all be-all, like the DNC is the primary means by which any progress can be won, rather than an obstacle to progress.
Prove it.
The closest direct source I found suggests that there is a negative correlation between system-justifying beliefs and collective anti-system action. If people believe voting legitimately is a means by which they can enact social change, they are less likely to organize against the system itself. This does not mean voting itself is against organizing, in fact organizers vote at higher rates than non-organizers. The importance here is that collective action is diminished when that is directed towards engaging with the system itself.
Even reading through the abstract, this study is irrelevant to what we’re talking about here. They did a study that showed how people who are against the system and protest the system will inevitably butt heads with people who want to keep the system, the status quo.
Nowhere is it talking about voting, and that voting causes people to stop organizing.
The fact you said you “found” it instead of having that information on hand, and that you had to stretch to say this proves your theory means what I thought from the start.
The whole “people who vote will organize less” theory you state as absolute, the whole basis of your criticism, is made up. You assumed that this was true instead of checking. Shameful.
The study directly shows a negative correlation between those who believe the system represents a valid path to change, and those who organize against the system. This is my point. I did not say “people who vote will organize less,” I said funelling people into electoralism and treating it as the primary means of change deflates revolutionary organizing. These are distinct and separate points, and since you cannot argue against my actual point, you make up strawmen.
That’s your quote