I absolutely asked for evidence. I just didn’t ask you for evidence. Weird that you apparently read through my comments and didn’t see that.

And not one person has told me that they were personally hurt by this happening to them. They have just said that it is wrong.

You show me the person in this thread who said it caused them pain. I can’t invalidate feelings that people don’t have. Someone not liking something has nothing to do with whether or not that thing causes trauma or any sort of psychological damage to anyone unless it caused them that damage.

And now I am asking you for evidence. Please quote the person that was hurt by their parents doing this.

I may be an utter idiot, but it’s weird how you aren’t billed for healthcare in a lot of non-communist countries.

I guess universal healthcare is capitalism.

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Again, babies don’t come out with clothes on. The idea of expecting consent for sending grandparents pictures of what their newborn grandchild looked like when it was just a few seconds old is ridiculous.

And yes, psychology is a soft science. That doesn’t mean that you personally can claim that people have been traumatized by this without showing any evidence of it just like you can’t claim that people have been traumatized by a Luke Skywalker action figure without showing any evidence of it. You can infer whatever you like. Inferences aren’t truth and they are based on personal biases.

Suggesting that because psychology is a soft science, you can make whatever claim about trauma you infer is ridiculous. Where did you get your psychology degree from, anyway?

Believe what person? Hurts some people?

I have asked for evidence that it hurts anyone and have not received it.

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Would you argue that medical bills would exist at all in a communist country? Because that was my point.

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Why can’t you call it pain? Plaints obviously are aware of it if they react to it.

An extremely rare Sunday Riker!

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Has it caused someones trauma? Yeah I bet it has.

Cool. Psychology isn’t based on your bets.

This is the primary issue, without even going into the obvious power dynamic between child and parent when it comes to consent later. Where do a childs rights end and parents begin?

Again, if we argue that children have to consent to get their photo taken, no one should take any photos of their children below the age where they can do that. That means no baby pictures at all.

The “real psychological pain” part makes it look like you’re dismissing trauma

You have no evidence of this trauma. You’re just guessing.

No worries. My point was that I cannot make a claim at this point that plants definitely do not feel pain and suffering regardless of whether or not I am willing to eat them. There are other reasons good not to eat meat, such as environmental reasons, but I cannot honestly say for certain that when I eat a plant, harvesting it did not cause it pain and suffering because the more we learn about plants, the more we learn that they do have similar systems to animals in many ways even though they do it differently.

Does that make it more ethical in terms of causing pain and suffering to eat a plant rather than an animal just because their pain is not from same sort of nervous system as an animal’s? Can we be certain that their reactions to being harmed or in trouble in some way, such as the chemical signals and the mother tree examples above isn’t an expression of pain and suffering? I honestly do not know. We all have to eat to survive, so we have to make choices on this regardless of what the science tells us. The only way out of this, as someone else pointed out, is Star Trek replicators.

We also just don’t know enough yet, so this discussion is more speculative because we just don’t have good definitions for ‘pain’ and ‘suffering’ outside of our limited human perspective. It sure seems like all mammals feel pain. It’s hard to tell if insects feel pain. It’s really hard to tell if plants feel pain.

Not in any way. This is actual science done by botanists and other biologists.

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Please, Tankies, keep telling me how China is a communist country.