The parts of Ukraine that have been invaded by Russia have not been liberated, they have been subjugated to the rule of the Kremlin. And as I said before, “elections” in Russia are rigged. It’s not just ballot stuffing, it’s also the fact that genuine opposition candidates aren’t allowed to stand for election.

And as far as I understand, Zelenskyy and Poroshenko were both pretty pro-EU all along.

I don’t know why you’re going on about a “nazi problem” when Russia has plenty of far-right activists themselves.

The key point though is that it’s up to the people of Ukraine to decide if they want referendums. It’s not for an imperialist power like Russia to impose their own demands that Ukraine should hold referendums.

If Ukrainians wanted another leader like Yanukovych then they could have elected one in 2014 or 2019, but they didn’t.

Maybe Ukraine should have another election but it would be difficult when much of their land is illegally occupied by Russia.

Liberated regions like Kherson, liberated from the Russian invaders? Maybe they have had local elections, I dunno.

I think it would be good if the Donbas and Crimea could democratically decide their future, but I don’t believe the referendums held by Putin’s regime, given that the Russian regime rigs elections (that video shows ballot stuffing in Russia).

I don’t see how Ukraine, or Ukrainian far-right elements, provoked the war. The war was begun by Russia who sent their troops (illegally of course) into Crimea and the Donbas in 2014.

In 2022 I think a lot of Ukrainians definitely did want to fight back and many people signed up for the military. They didn’t want Russia conquering their country.

Wanting freedom from the dictator in Moscow is not idiotic.

If the bribes/threats aren’t public then why are you sure they happened?

Boris Johnson… went to Kyiv to bribe and threaten Zelensky into backing out

What did he bribe/threaten Zelenskyy with? I thought what he said to Zelenskyy was “decide what you want, and the UK will support your decision either way”.

I’m not saying the Dems need to go further to the right to win elections, but they just need to appeal to middle America I guess - people who probably don’t see themselves as on the left or right. Like the OP pic of this thread points out, Biden won in 2020, and he’s a pretty centrist politician.

On [email protected] they’ve been suggesting that Harris went too far to the right to try to capture moderate Republicans, and that’s why she lost, but yes I think this OP image makes sense.

Arguably though you could say it’s not as simple as left/right. Maybe the Democrats should look at which specific demographics they did badly with, and then figure out how to better appeal to those demographics.

I guess ideally Biden should never have run for a second term, and they could have had proper primaries.

Fair points. Biden won enough men in 2020 though. Maybe Kamala was just seen as too leftist or too focused on women’s issues or something… I’m not saying she was those things, but maybe some people saw her that way.

Fair. Maybe voters cared about personalities though. And they thought Kamala was partly responsible for rising prices under Biden’s term, so maybe they weren’t as bothered by other policy areas.

True. Maybe Harris should have focused more on working class endorsements, union endorsements, etc. I dunno.

Perhaps these two factors contributed to this:

1. Harris is a woman and maybe some Americans just don’t want a female president
2. Harris maybe leaned too hard on celebrity endorsements, at a time when Americans are feeling worse-off financially, which perhaps made her seem out of touch to middle America

If that’s true then both Ukrainians and Russians have impositions on their freedom, but at least Ukraine seems to have had democratic elections over the last 10 years, whereas Russia has been rigging their elections, perhaps since 1999 (or longer than that).

Anyway, I would definitely like for Ukrainians to be allowed to leave their country if they wish. But the blame for this invasion surely rests on Russia. The Kremlin launched this imperialistic invasion in 2022, building upon their earlier invasions in 2014.

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Are people in Russian-occupied territories free to protest against Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? No. They would get put in prison, or worse. So they aren’t free.

I do think Ukrainians should be allowed to leave Ukraine. But you seem to be blaming Zelenskyy for the Russian shells, being fired by Russian forces. For some reason you don’t want to put any blame at all on the Kremlin - why is that?

liberated

Russia is imperialist and I don’t trust any of their “referendums” in the occupied regions of Ukraine, given that Russia rigs elections (that’s a video of ballot stuffing in Russia).

could you please also explain to me how being unable to leave your country where you can be kidnapped on a street at any day and sent to die is not considered slavery

I do think there is a point to make here. Ukrainians should be free to leave their country if they want. But anyway, I strongly disagree with your view that Russia’s imperialist invasion of Ukraine is “liberating” anything or anyone.

The UK has also denied entry for people in similar cases. Some right-wing activists were denied entry in 2018.

I can’t see your comment because it was removed by mods.

You accuse others of racism but you’re racist yourself. Talking about stereotypes that “you people” hold. You’re generalising across westerners, and perhaps you mean white people in general.

Anyway, there is nothing morally wrong at all with objecting to the PRC government.

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