Most poor people in the West have huge carbon footprints because what they can afford to buy is cheap and imported from countries like China and, if they can afford a car, it’s not likely to be a hybrid or an electric. What else can they do? Should we expect the poor to live shittier lives when the people who are doing the vast majority of the damage are allowed to keep going?
I hear ya! I don’t have a car, so I walk to/from work everyday or take the bus if I have to go further than I can walk. I was surprised to learn that some people thought I was being “holier-than-thou” by not driving. I’m not trying to be a “saint” or whatever, I just can’t fit a car and all its related expenses into my budget!
for one people could just stop eating meat - or stop treating flying as a normal thing you do for holiday
the problem is that most people think others are to blame for one reason or anoher and don’t see that literally everyone has to change…
this whole thing is just a huge prisoner’s dilemma and noone will make the first move in fear of others not moving and exploiting that situation in the short term while ignoring that they are fucking over the planet in the long run…
You need to differentiate between poor in a wealthy country vs. globally poor. I know plenty of “poor” people in the US who can still scrape together enough cash for a plane ticket to go on vacation, but they’re still in tons of debt with zero savings.
You have to be able to afford to spend thousands to go to any major tourist destination far from you in the U.S. or Europe when you factor in the cost of air travel, hotel cost and food, not to mention any attractions you might want to see while there.
If you can afford to “scrape together” enough to do that, you are not poor. It really sounds like your privilege is showing.
People make bad financial decisions all the time? I dunno why you’re so angry about this. Like, would you say someone with $10,000 of debt, no house, making $13 an hour is not poor? I mean ya they aren’t destitute and homeless but that person sure as fuck wouldn’t call themselves rich, you know?
Plane Tickets for a city trip between European capitals are like 20-50€
Tickets to the most popular holiday destinations are regularly possible to get for less than 100€
Sure it’s not for the poorest 20-30% but I was mostly talking about the huge amount of people in the middle class.
My point is that it doesn’t matter - you can always choose. The American settlement-style of making it impossible to do stuff on foot even within cities is one of the very few things I’d count as something where you don’t really have a choice.
“Fuck the people struggling to survive for having the ability to live a little and go on vacation, they deserve to be punished the exact same as the millionaires and billionaires jumping into their private planed to fly 45mins to skip an hour of LA traffic.”
Got one guy yelling that real poor people can’t afford plane tickets and you’re calling me stupid for the opposite reason. Meanwhile I’m here like, I never even took a position on the actual argument, I just wanted to make a distinction between poverty in wealthy countries vs poor countries. Yeesh
Most poor people in the West have huge carbon footprints because what they can afford to buy is cheap and imported from countries like China and, if they can afford a car, it’s not likely to be a hybrid or an electric. What else can they do? Should we expect the poor to live shittier lives when the people who are doing the vast majority of the damage are allowed to keep going?
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I hear ya! I don’t have a car, so I walk to/from work everyday or take the bus if I have to go further than I can walk. I was surprised to learn that some people thought I was being “holier-than-thou” by not driving. I’m not trying to be a “saint” or whatever, I just can’t fit a car and all its related expenses into my budget!
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for one people could just stop eating meat - or stop treating flying as a normal thing you do for holiday
the problem is that most people think others are to blame for one reason or anoher and don’t see that literally everyone has to change…
this whole thing is just a huge prisoner’s dilemma and noone will make the first move in fear of others not moving and exploiting that situation in the short term while ignoring that they are fucking over the planet in the long run…
Right, all of those poor people who take airplanes on their vacations…
What the fuck are you talking about?
You need to differentiate between poor in a wealthy country vs. globally poor. I know plenty of “poor” people in the US who can still scrape together enough cash for a plane ticket to go on vacation, but they’re still in tons of debt with zero savings.
You have to be able to afford to spend thousands to go to any major tourist destination far from you in the U.S. or Europe when you factor in the cost of air travel, hotel cost and food, not to mention any attractions you might want to see while there.
If you can afford to “scrape together” enough to do that, you are not poor. It really sounds like your privilege is showing.
People make bad financial decisions all the time? I dunno why you’re so angry about this. Like, would you say someone with $10,000 of debt, no house, making $13 an hour is not poor? I mean ya they aren’t destitute and homeless but that person sure as fuck wouldn’t call themselves rich, you know?
Plane Tickets for a city trip between European capitals are like 20-50€
Tickets to the most popular holiday destinations are regularly possible to get for less than 100€
Sure it’s not for the poorest 20-30% but I was mostly talking about the huge amount of people in the middle class.
My point is that it doesn’t matter - you can always choose. The American settlement-style of making it impossible to do stuff on foot even within cities is one of the very few things I’d count as something where you don’t really have a choice.
“Fuck the people struggling to survive for having the ability to live a little and go on vacation, they deserve to be punished the exact same as the millionaires and billionaires jumping into their private planed to fly 45mins to skip an hour of LA traffic.”
That’s what you sounds like, you sound stupid.
Got one guy yelling that real poor people can’t afford plane tickets and you’re calling me stupid for the opposite reason. Meanwhile I’m here like, I never even took a position on the actual argument, I just wanted to make a distinction between poverty in wealthy countries vs poor countries. Yeesh