• Blackmist@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    75
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    14 days ago

    I looked at a list of the people who took over immediately after the French revolution, and it looks very much like a bunch of aristocrats used a mob to take over.

    It certainly wasn’t handed over to the likes of you and me.

    You can see this being emulated right now by people like Trump. “The people won’t stand for it”, “there’ll be civil war”, etc. If Jan 6th was more than a rabble of trailer trash dumbfucks, they might even have been talking about it the same way by now…

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      31
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      14 days ago

      it looks very much like a bunch of aristocrats used a mob to take over.

      Not unusual for educated professionals to form the intellectual and financial backbone of a revolution, because… they are the ones with money and education.

      But there was an enormous gulf between the mid level bureaucrats of the French Revolution and the senior aristocrats they deposed. That is, in large part, because the French aristocracy was married into all the other European royal families, while the insurrectionists were not.

      If some junior office workers at Exxon executed the board and the C-level staff with the help of the blue collar roughnecks, that would be an enormous change in the governance of the company. Imagine how Wall Street would respond. Not unlike how France’s neighbors responded to their revolution, I’m sure.

    • oce 🐆@jlai.lu
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      14 days ago

      it looks very much like a bunch of aristocrats used a mob to take over.

      Mostly bourgeois actually, aristocrats were very much profiting of the system. Bourgeois are the ones who had enough money to get education and rethink the political system to end the aristocrats’ birth privileges. How would an illiterate peasant be able to rethink the political system beyond tax reduction?

  • Spacehooks@reddthat.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    50
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    14 days ago

    Literally why I think killing someone’s family in movies is dumb. You Literally left that dude with nothing but hate. Kind of annoying trope that people get broken instead of full vengeance mode. Very rare you see a character like in Foundation that goes “do it and lose your leverage”.

      • Spacehooks@reddthat.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        13 days ago

        My point was we owe are love ones to stop evil from continue their rampage but Lol you are right, that is one way to look at it. Certainly would be a more thorough villian. I think Hydra tried that in one of the movies. I just hate it in movies “o no my husband died in battle so I won’t command the army to finish fighting” like whaaaa?

  • Adalast@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    36
    ·
    13 days ago

    One of the most salient things I think I hace ever learned is that the US revolution against British rule was instigated by less than 1000 people of a population of over 2.5 million people, and it didn’t have the support of more than 45% of the population at any point in the war. (https://www.nps.gov/teachers/classrooms/loyalists-in-american-revolution.htm)

    Most people did not want the inconvenience then and proportionally 0 of them had any say in it starting.

  • hallettj@leminal.space
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    24
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    14 days ago

    From what I’ve learned revolutions are often accompanied by circumstances where people are desperate due to lack of basic necessities, especially food.

    The French revolution was preceded by a serious food shortage. Remember that “let them eat cake” comment? One of the key events, the Women’s March which displaced the king and queen from Versailles, was specifically motivated by demands for food.

    The European People’s Spring saw lots of revolutions across Europe in 1848-1849 including in France, Italy, Bavaria, Austria, Hungary. That was about the same time as a continent-wide grain shortage on top of an economic crisis.

    The Russian revolution of 1917 came at a time when a combination of WW1, bad leadership, and an extra cold winter led to food shortages, and fuel shortages so people were starving and freezing at the same time.

    • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      14 days ago

      For the Russian revolution you’ve also got that whole World War 1 thing where the rulers were expecting the freezing starving people to repeatedly bayonet charge machine gun positions with zeal and elan for years on end.

    • Shyfer@ttrpg.network
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      14 days ago

      I think there was crazy inflation in some countries during the Arab Spring, too. Which also makes it hard to get food.

  • Holzkohlen@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    25
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    14 days ago

    And this is why we will not beat climate change. That would mean giving up a LOT. People don’t want it, so politicians won’t campaign on it and thus we are doomed.

    • Esqplorer@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      14 days ago

      This is a fundamental belief of most conservatives I know. “If I don’t do it, everyone else will and I’ll be the loser who didn’t.”

  • NaoPb@eviltoast.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    14 days ago

    Most people I know are doing something to help. Maybe not radically changing their lives but they seem to be doing their best.

    I don’t see these people that are not willing to change anything. Maybe I’m not in the right country?

    • Moneo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      14 days ago

      What country do you live in?

      Most North Americans are too obsessed with cars to consider a world where they don’t drive everywhere.

      • Drusas@kbin.run
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        14 days ago

        Most Americans are not obsessed with cars; they see cars as necessary. Those are not the same. Introduce them to good public transit and you would see change.

        It’s a small minority of Americans who are really into cars.

        • Moneo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          14 days ago

          I live in a city with solid public transportation and bike infrastructure, easily top 10 in North America. Almost everyone I know takes public transit only when it’s convenient (ie they want to drink) but otherwise drives everywhere. I don’t know a single person who advocates for more public transportation or bike infrastructure.

          • Drusas@kbin.run
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            edit-2
            14 days ago

            Top 10 in North America is still pretty bad.

            People need to grow up with this infrastructure being in place, seeing it used by regular people for basic tasks like going to work or the grocery store. Seeing it in movies and other media (in a positive/neutral way). It needs to be normalized. Unfortunately, that takes a long time and a ton of money.

            The truth is, right now, in the United States, most public transit is absolutely horrible. It doesn’t serve many locations, it’s usually crappy old buses with stains on their seats, there’s often one or more individuals with overt mental health issues, and public transit in general is associated with poverty.

            You’re not going to get people using public transit regularly if it’s not normalized, incentivized, clean, safe, etc. It’s a tough problem, to be sure. Some places are making a lot of progress on it, such as where I live in Seattle, but it’s an uphill battle due to the way the United States was built to be car-centric.

            By the way, if you don’t know anyone who advocates for public transit and uses it more regularly than you say, I doubt you are in the top 10.

            • Moneo@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              13 days ago

              I live in Vancouver, easily top 10 city, probably top 5. And yeah you’re right, I do know two people who advocate, my aunt and uncle. No one else I know is even remotely passionate about urbanization efforts. Lots of people I know use public transit, but they don’t view it as something that can be relied on as their main form of transportation. Yes, the fact that our public transit is not nearly as good as it could be is a huge part of it, but the point remains that most people do not feel strongly about improving it.

              I’m sure my privilege has kept me in a bit of a bubble but there are seriously very few people who feel strongly about public transit and cycling infrastructure. Even my less privileged friends are hardly advocates for better infrastructure and the people I’ve met through sports leagues all drive, I’m literally the only person I know who rides a bike everywhere they go. I used to frequent a local news website and any article that mentioned road diets or public transportation became toxic battlefields between pro and anti car folks.

              There is absolutely a significant group of advocates in the city, but I really feel like you’re misjudging the percentage of people who support urbanization efforts.

      • fuzzzerd@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        13 days ago

        Not quite. Most literally couldn’t survive without a car, due to the infrastructure of the city/town they live in. They are a necessity for the vast majority of folks.

        • Moneo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          13 days ago

          I get that, but a significant portion of people fight tool and nail against any and all attempts to reduce car dependency in cities.

      • NaoPb@eviltoast.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        13 days ago

        Maybe that’s it. I live in the Netherlands where people mostly cycle and use public transport. Sure we have cars too but you can live your life without needing to own one here.

        Also lots of people are installing solar panels due to government incentives and a similar incentive has people switch to electric cars.

        The company I rent my house from has installed solar panels, thicker windows and wall insulation to get my home to an A energy label. And I am using LED light around the house, put on a sweater instead of turning on the heat, am using a newer computer that uses a lot less power, and I try to conserve water by showering shorter and not doing a full flush of the toilet if it isn’t needed. Oh and I’ve removed some tiles from my garden zo that there is more ground available to take up the rainwater. And I’ve installed a rainwater barrel so I can collect water to use in the garden. I’m trying to move to cooking on electric but my homes electrical wiring is not quite up to that yet.

        [edit] Oh and drinking tea all day from a thermos so I don’t have to keep boiling water all the time.

  • bluewing@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    13 days ago

    If you wish to eat the rich, you must be willing to risk dying to do so. Until then, you are just whinging and the rich know it.

  • blackstampede@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    14 days ago

    On The Nature Of Mass Movementa, by (I think) Eric Hoffer. One of the things he claims is that mass movements are generally made up of the dispossessed and dissatisfied who want better conditions but are not quite suffering enough that their entire focus is on acquiring food. People have to feel as if they could improve their circumstances by revolting, but not be actively starving.

  • ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    13
    ·
    edit-2
    13 days ago

    The problem is: what does it mean to do that? Right now, we don’t have an organized revolution or movement. There needs to be a specific call to action. If you want people to “give up the comforts” of their lives, they need to know what doing that will accomplish, what the specific goal of the movement is, and how “giving up the comforts” will help to achieve it.

    What you might actually be asking is for people to risk their jobs by going on general strike, their homes by not paying rent, etc. This is really more than “the comforts of their lives”, it is their ability to survive and feed their families.

    The other problem is, any cause that only requires people to “give up the comforts of their lives” likely won’t be highly impactful. For instance, general strike and protest might help the climate crisis, but giving up plastic straws and driving less or whatever really won’t make much of a dent compared to the massive impacts of global capitalism.

    • zaphod@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      13 days ago

      Driving less would make a huge impact, around 45% of all transport related emissions are from passenger traffic, that’s buses, taxis, and most of all regular people driving their cars. Transport related emissions accounts for 24% of global emissions, so just passenger traffic is almost 11% of global emissions. Everyone hates aviation, but that’s “only” around 3% of global emissions, shipping also around 3%, and road freight is 7%.

      Source: https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-transport

      • ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        13 days ago

        That is a fair point. My only counterargument would be that due to the way cities are set up, a large portion of those emissions come from commuting. The reason people commute is they have to earn money to pay bills so they can feed their kids and keep a roof over their heads.

        So, asking people to drive less could mean asking them to give up their employment, which could be much more than “giving up the comforts of their lives” like the OP suggested - again, it could really put their livelihoods in jeopardy. And, without an organized cause, clear goal, a call to action, and clear communication about why their specific sacrifices are necessary, people will not take such huge risks.

  • Boomkop3@reddthat.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    13 days ago

    We don’t need to give up comforts, we need governments to stop multi-billionairs from hording wealth and driving the economy stale

    • Asafum@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      13 days ago

      We do need to give up comforts in that we’ll face jail time, we’ll lose our current housing, we’ll have to greatly decrease our standard of living, etc… if we’re to truly bring the revolution the comic is alluding to it’s going to hurt a lot.

      As another comment put it “we’re just whinging” and those in power know it.

      I don’t like it any more than the next good person, but all throughout history the only thing that brings true change is bloodshed. “We” as workers/non-owners have literally never in history had necessary changes happen that take money/power from the owning class without bloodshed.

      THEY make it so. When you remove the power from the ballot box the ammo box is the only place left to go.

  • Snowclone@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    12
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    13 days ago

    They had a wealthy enclave of British aristocracy who realized they had enough money to militarily fight the British on land, and eventually the crown would get tired of bleeding, and cut and run. Then they would be the only and direct masters of the colonies.