- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
EDIT: I didn’t notice in the original post, the article is from 2023
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/19707239
Researchers have documented an explosion of hate and misinformation on Twitter since the Tesla billionaire took over in October 2022 – and now experts say communicating about climate science on the social network on which many of them rely is getting harder.
Policies aimed at curbing the deadly effects of climate change are accelerating, prompting a rise in what experts identify as organised resistance by opponents of climate reform.
Peter Gleick, a climate and water specialist with nearly 99,000 followers, announced on May 21 he would no longer post on the platform because it was amplifying racism and sexism.
While he is accustomed to “offensive, personal, ad hominem attacks, up to and including direct physical threats”, he told AFP, “in the past few months, since the takeover and changes at Twitter, the amount, vituperativeness, and intensity of abuse has skyrocketed”.
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I have no clue why all these normal, non-racist non-political people still use twitter. It was bought for the obvious purpose of providing a safe space for conservatives, racists, incels, and other outcasts to society. Mastodon is a perfect replacement for it, and you can pick an instance that suits you. It isn’t owned by a mentally unstable billionaire!
I agree with this assessment for the most part but one side of me plays devil’s advocate on this:
I sort of came to realize in the end that it was possibly purchased to push all leftists off the platform, allowing Musk to compete with Google and Facebook in heavily manipulating and censoring discourse in American society (and let’s be clear, they did. Just because it was an attempt to help “the good guys in the DNC” by Google and Facebook doesn’t make it not an open and shut case of treasonous manipulation of discourse.
As an absolutely prolific Twitter user pre-2016, I was very quick to leave….but at the same time, I eventually came to the sad conclusion that Xitter (pronounced Shitter) actually does need leftist voices as long as it exists. IMO, it (and Google and Facebook) should be dissolved, open sourced, decentralized, and socialized for the crime of treason/undermining democracy.
We (people of the fediverse with a strong sense of integrity) basically fled to our own decentralized, open source platform where we have 1 millionth of the reach with our voices. Being around such a cesspool where astroturfers working for Progressive think tanks and their conservative buddies would gaslight me about the popularity of things like Single Payer or student loan reform…which was not great for my well-being…But let’s not pretend that leftists that remain on the platform are bad people for doing so. An echo chamber has a way of brainwashing people. So, conservatism would be even stronger had more of our brethren not stayed.
Just a small counterpoint. I strongly dislike conservatism and the conservative ethos of “fuck you, got mine”…but perhaps they were playing 4D chess with us a bit.
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Everyone from the lemmy.blahaj.zone instance that I’ve interacted with or seen have been trolls. Those guys are super weirdos idk what their deal is. It’s baffling seeing what they claim to stand for
I thought they were supposed to be a pro-trans, inclusive community but I’m thinking it’s mostly just astro-terfing trolls. Kinda like ml or lemmygrad or beehaw aren’t really leftists, just pro-authoritarian incoherent apologist edgelords.
It’s like they’re not even trying to interact with good faith.
I wouldn’t be shocked if it was astro-terfing
Tell me more about Beehaw, I know about the trouble with lemmy.ml and lemmygrad, but so far haven’t heard anything about Beehaw.
Well, beehaw is kinda like ml but less hinged at times. I don’t block instances, only users and communities. Some of beehaws communities are quite good and friendly. The politics ones…well, I don’t see those anymore.
Sometimes it feels like there grownups in there who grasp nuance and empathy and at other times it feels like it’s full of ex-4channers who think they’ve grown up.
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Look at that! We both win!
Made sense to me
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect
Twitter hasn’t dropped below the critical mass of users necessary for the system to become useless. It’s still a major artery of media and social commerce, just one that’s been littered with landmines. Yes, its far more dangerous and difficult to navigate now, but its still better than posting into the uninhabited wilderness that is Bluesky or the exact same basket of shitty engagement posts that is Threads.
Counterpoint: Twitter will continue to maintain a critical mass of users until enough people move somewhere else to make it irrelevant. Continuing to use it only serves to further credentialize the platform, making it even less likely that users will find a new home someplace else.
Continuing to use it only serves to further credentialize the platform
The vast majority of users don’t care whether the platform is credentialized or not.
Respectfully, you were the one who pointed out the impact of the Network Effect.
The adoption of a product by an additional user can be broken into two effects: an increase in the value to all other users (total effect) and also the enhancement of other non-users’ motivation for using the product (marginal effect).
Thus, users don’t need to understand the credentials of the platform if the network effect is strong enough, but as users leave the network, the value (credentials) of the platform as a whole decreases.
Another way to think about it is that the amount Twitter “matters” is directly related to how much we collectively agree it matters. While not directly transferable, I’d suggest that Keynes’ Animal Spirits concept can help us to understand why this might be the case - prevailing attitudes towards a platform can have a profound impact on their value.
Is it actually better than nothing though?
Either these are tolerant folks or someone we might be better off if they stayed on 4twitter.
It’s still usable if you’re not on English side of Twitter.
For example, recent Indonesian political movement relied on Twitter for discussion and updates. Mastodon or any fediverse is simply too niche and most people don’t have money to fund local general instance. There were several local fedi instance (Mastodon and Lemmy), but all of them quickly dead for low donation.
Japanese-side is still alive (in positive manner) but people are making backup account on Bluesky and Japanese Misskey instances.
The otherwise sensible people I know who are still on Twitter all say it’s because of a specific interest or group, and the community of people around it who are all on there as well. They all hate what it’s become but put up with it because nobody is sure where else to go.
There’s also a sense of FOMO when it comes to realtime news updates. Until government, news media, and personalities go somewhere and take all their followers with them, it will be hard to break away.
Idk either. But it’s really easy to stay where you’re used to, rather than do the work to set something new up
Very true, but at the same time I feel that it’s a place where I won’t get censored just because google randomly thought my comment was offensive
People get censored on Twitter all the time.
Reality: you can stop fascism by deleting the app
Everyone: doesn’t
Oh, i didnt know this was like IT. i’ll tell my russians friends just to ignore putin’s regime
If by ignore, you mean stop paying taxes and working in any capacity for government in one go, yes would work. The only fear is being singled out, if more than 0.5% of the people do it, army wont even have the guts to get tanks out, they will join.
Touché
Venezuela has ~70% of the people against the regime, (nearly 90% counting the 5M that were not allowed to vote) and the needle isn’t even moving.
And in Russia being “singled out” is apparently a national tradition.
Sorry, I may be over pessimistic today.
I guess that’s a fair example. But logically sounds impossible for such control over the population to be had. If a group went out to the streets to oust the government, you would say at least maybe 45% would join.
No. Dunno where did you take that 0.5% from, it’s not empirically confirmed by anything.
Like 20% if you want to see civil war. Like 40% if you want to see regime change.
There is the semi-usually-known research that suggests 3.5% is enough for non-violent protests to reach changes. https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7312/chen15682
0.5% is 1 in 200 people, essentially everyone knowing personally one person who is against the government. Maybe it isn’t enough.
But also, 0.5% homogenously (instead of country-wide being concentrated in Moscow), would be 600k people peacefully marching in Moscow streets
It doesn’t work. It’s some urban legend that this is sufficient. Even those 600k may or may not be stopped by a threat of real ammo being used. I’m not even talking about coordination.
One can “prove” anything with selectively chosen statistics.
They werent selectively chosen. " An original, aggregate data set of all known major nonviolent and violent resistance campaigns from 1900 to 2006 is used to test these claims." As well as any researcher who isn’t a complete buffoon would only look at statistics that has only a 2-3 sigma chance of only being stochastic noise.
The set of indicators, of course, was selectively chosen. The authors, of course, have decided which of these they consider important and which don’t, that is, decided upon weights and criteria.
Pardon my ignorance. I may have a mild brain injury.
Could you perhaps rephrase?
I’m not sure if I understood what you said.
In IT (the movie and, i presume, also in the book) ::: spoiler spoiler The kids realize that IT feeds on attention and that the only way to fight it is by ignoring it :::
Imo, shitter (X) is a cesspool as it is now, but I dont believe that leaving it to the hordes is a solution to anything. We need a better approach to deal with this people.
Ah, that makes sense. I thought you meant IT as in information technology. Was very confused.
Brain still good yey
edit: typo. perhaps I need to make that appointment
??? no he feeds on fear, the way they defeat it is not being afraid
We should as a community ensure Twitter\X lives forever…
If only as a place to keep certain social media users “entertained”
In all seriousness it does concern me how often I see such a wide variety of news agencies quote Twitter considering the amount of hate that goes on there
The irony of climate scientists ignoring a problem and waiting until it’s far to late to do something is honestly pretty funny…
At this point it’s wholly on you if you’re still using twitter.
You’d think smart people like science nerds would have left the Nazi bar ages ago.
That first line is so spot on. Brightened up my day
It’s because the news media industry as a whole has stuck with Twitter as their primary social media site. It’s kinda hilarious how much they seem to like it and how much time they spend there.
That’s dangerous. Look at what Fox is doing, as an entertainment company, to US politics across the country.
Disastrous, even
It’s a containment site; has been for a while.
Except the majority of mainstream news outlets use it as a source for 90% of their coverage.
This is why we need the SCP Foundation.
Not what you intended, but:
scp /dev/zero root@x.com:/path/to/databases
Your comment reminds me of that great tune by Pink Floyd.
Considering Meta is doubling down on disinformation, more people should go to Mastodon and Bsky over Threads or Twitter.
Is blue sky really ok? Considering who started it…
i don’t think jack funded it he was just an original board member; but he left the board a month or two ago.
Yeah, it seems pretty good.
I’d agree. For now at least it’s pretty good.
Hell no, fuck Bluesky. There is no reason not to adopt ActivityPub when trying to build an open, federated Twitter alternative. Except for power and control over the platform, its core protocol and ecosystem. Screw these guys, use Mastodon or anything on the Fediverse.
except they adopted atproto because it fixed issues with activitypub portability and sharing
This is their stupid excuse. They could still implement ActiviyPub as a secondary federation protocol. (Bluesky <-> Bluesky via ATProto, Bluesky <-> Fediverse via ActivityPub). They decided against it. It’s an intentional choice, and they’re just making up excuses.
i mean that’s pretty much already done via third party and endorsed by the bsky team (i can already follow mastodon users on bsky and bsky users on mastodon);
https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed
(shameless self promotion; my bsky account on my mastodon instance: https://tech.lgbt/@[email protected])
There are 3 issues with this:
- This is a third-party project, not an official part of Bluesky. Bluesky was never meant to work with ActivityPub, that was a clear design choice. This is just a workaround.
- It’s opt-in, meaning most accounts will never get federated, because people just aren’t aware that something like this exists. This especially applies to new users.
- It relies on a centralized service, Bluesky and ActivityPub servers don’t talk directly to each other, which would be required for true federation. Federation is always decentralized, this is the exact opposite.
I don’t understand why anyone should use Bluesky with cheap hacks to attempt to fix Bluesky’s poor design choices and or utter incompetence, if they could just use Mastodon and federate with the Fediverse over ActivityPub by default.
From a user perspective, Bluesky is just Mastodon with a recommendation algorithm. There is no other protocol required for this, everything could easily be done using ActivityPub exclusively. I will never care about Bluesky, since it tries to be the new Twitter, but the enshittification of Twitter began when they introduced their crappy algorithm, instead of just displaying tweets of accounts you follow in chronological order (like Mastodon does it).
to be fair it was originally not opt in but it was mastodon users who made an issue about it and forced the opt in version
and bsky has multiple algorithms because individual issues can create lists and feeds tailored to their needs.
it also has a straight forward following feed
X needs to start getting banned by governments and official governmental channels need to be moving out.
X is such a shitty social network, or at least its really disorganized, I get porn and gore in my home page without following people who share that kind of content, That doesn’t happen even in 4chan
Wow 4chan really changed huh
The bit in the square brackets in the title was mine, because that’s what I went into the article to look for. If you’re on Mastodon and interested in that content:
The text from the article:
Glaciologist Ruth Mottram had more than 10,000 followers on Twitter but left in February and joined an alternative scientists’ forum powered by Mastodon -– a crowdfunded, decentralised grouping of social networks founded in 2016.
“It’s really been a revelation in many ways. It’s a much quieter and more thoughtful platform,” she told AFP.
On Mastodon, “I haven’t had any abuse at all or even people questioning climate change. I think we’d become far too used to it on Twitter… I had blocked loads of accounts over on the birdsite (Twitter),” she said.
I gave her a follow. She seems like a nice lady. I hope she enjoys the fediverse a little more than the “nether world”
Is there a list of all scientists that made the move to Masto?
Ruth is a very kind person, her posts are amazing!
I already accepted we’re already dead because oil & gas companies figured how to use doubt and false science to create a confusion among the general public (aided by the mass conservative Murdoch /Boloré media lol)…
It’s like tobacco companies in the 50s but we can’t afford so many years to wake the fuck up.
Yeah. I’ve been mourning the loss of Earth’s future for some time now. It’s very sad.
That said, we are not in a simple binary fucked vs fine situation. It’s a sliding scale. So even though things are very bad, we can always still take action to make them less bad. That is never not an option.
What do you mean? If it makes you feel any better, the Earth will be fine. Has been for a couple billion years. We did this to ourselves :(
I’m mean life on Earth, obviously. No one is saying that the planet is going to explode or disappear or anything like that. We’re talking about the climate, and life that depends on that climate.
And before you start coming at me with some “but but such and such life will still…” I’ll clarify again that there is a matter of scale here. A very large number of species that have been around for a very long time will soon be extinct (many have been lost already). So although we might still have mosquitos and jelly-fish for a long time to come, a lot of the complex life that is currently enjoying a comfortable and otherwise-sustainable life on Earth will no longer be able to do so; because of us. That’s what I’m referring to.
Yes, humans have does this to ‘ourselves’, but we are nowhere near the worst effected life in this situation. In fact, most of the ill effects on humans are just knock-on effects from other life failing. (In particular, reduced capacity to grow food is likely to be a problem for humans.)
Smoking companies still are with vaping (vaping companies literally sell to kids over the Internet and people literally are arguing it’s safe and healthy)
Which unfortunately shows that people don’t learn
Aaaaah i don’t want to be right :((
The dumb masses always eventually follow the smart people. Reddit was full of mostly smart people in the beginning, if you can believe that.
And this is why I’m perfectly happy with Lemmy being the size that it is. There certainly are trade-offs - I wish niche communities were bigger - but is it worth bringing in all the other crap that comes in, like all the shit you see on Twitter? No, in my opinion.
I remember that /r/all was actually pretty educational back in the day. There were specific users that you would know by their user names that always posted something insightful.
The decline started somewhere around 2011-2013.
It got much, much worse a few years after that. I was amazed to see my first “conservative” on reddit.
I blame Digg for failing. It increased Reddit’s popularity too fast, which was a bad thing bringing too many people, fucking up the culture reddit had built (which wasn’t much, but it was ours).
Oh man, in 2024 I never thought I’d see some Reddit oldhead still complaining about the eternal September following Digg’s fall…
Oh, that’s when I first saw that place. Left surprised that there are still normal forums in the interwebs.
isn’t that why the hippie movement ended?
The Franklin Standards need to be on everyone’s radar. They don’t want your kids to learn about climate change.
Explain how and why Earth’s climate changes over time.
Climate changes continually at all time scales and Earth’s climate has never remained constant.
The Earth’s climate has varied greatly between glacial advances and retreats that correlate with cyclical oscillations in Earth’s orbit around the Sun (Milankovitch Cycles, precession).
In addition to being affected by the climate, the biosphere also has a significant effect on the climate, including self-regulation and resiliency (carbon-oxygen cycle, hydrological cycle).
Humans are just one of the many influences on Earth’s climate (urban heat island effect, wetland drainage, deforestation, agriculture).
Computer models of climate are simplified simulations of the real world, and make prognostications that are inherently uncertain.
Global weather forecast models (short term) and climate models (long term) are quite different in their design, their strengths, weaknesses, value, limitations, and uncertainties.
The wording is subtle, but you can see how they are attacking the idea of anthropogenic climate change. (There’s similar fuckery with evolution and some subtle anti-trans stuff.) Oil and gas companies have a lot of money and can afford a lot of propaganda. No states have adopted these standards yet - we think Florida and Texas will go first, then Oklahoma will follow. But this information warfare.
Humans are just one of the many influences on Earth’s climate
Proceeds to list a bunch of other things that are the fault of humans.
Thanks for pointing this out. The level of misguidedness is painful.
It’s frustrating, because you can tell they spent a lot of time making the words weaselly enough. The one about climate models especially enrages me, because yeah, they’re predictive tools with limitations (which I’ve discussed with students when I’ve taught with climate sims). But I know my old department head (who used to compliment kiddos for forgoing masks in 2020) is going to have those “uncertainties” do a lot of work.
That’s great news. Looking forward to having more climate scientists on Mastodon.
Hell, I would like to have ANYONE on Mastodon. It feels so dead.
Does it?
My Mastodon feed is more alive than my twitter feed used to be years before its demise. And also in my native language, if I were to follow english speaking people I’d be overwhelmed.
The trick is not to rely to much on the instance local feed and start following people from every instance.
Every time I give it another shot and look for things and people to follow, I find nothing.
Yes, and…
You can follow (and use) hashtags of topics you like.
Start following hashtags of things you’re interested in. And interact with people in those threads.
Never understood why nobody calls him an “american oligarch”
Oligarchs are only for the rich outside of the Thirteen Eyes. American oligarchs are called lobbyists and job creators.
I mean, he’s actively supporting the opposition (Trump) right now. Were Trump to win then he’d certainly be in a very good position within Trump’s desired oligarchy. Until then he’s just a very rich asshole whose main major concrete political power comes from his ownership of Twitter and (largely artificial) audience. If anything his support of Trump kneecaps him in his ability to run his businesses as the Biden and hypothetical Harris administrations are not as likely to let him keep getting away with all the blatantly illegal shit he keeps doing.
Michael Bloomberg OTOH fits the term pretty well, as he’s a very major donor to the DNC and that certainly makes him very close to the ear of the president and policy decisions.
That was a year ago.
I am on Mastodon for 5 years now (fuck it is really 5 years since August 2019, what the hell) and just can’t get into it. It just feels lonely over there. What am I doing wrong?
Tbh, I think it is the post statistics thing. It says “1 reply”, then I click at ot and it has 4 replies and it ALWAYS says “0 favorites” even when 10 people comment how great that post was.
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But what if I don’t want to follow people, but topics?
That’s why I’m here, and one thing that made Twitter acceptable.
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Idk, I haven’t used it in years. But I thought you could just follow hashtags, no?
I don’t use Mastodon either, so maybe that’s already a thing, idk. It was advertised as “federated Facebook,” and I really don’t like the people-based nature of Facebook (though TBF, haven’t used Facebook in… 10 years?).
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Can I follow them in a reasonable way? I don’t really care who makes the content, I care that it’s reasonably engaging.
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The statistics thing is a downside of how Mastodon implements ActivityPub.
Two possibilites:
-
I think you can simply hide the counts if it irritates you.
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You can install Fedifetcher to pull in missing interactions to your local server: https://github.com/nanos/FediFetcher
I’ll have a look at that fetcher thing. Thx.
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Twitter’s format feels a bit like yelling into the void and waiting for replies…you may luck out and get some engagement from a hub or a small subgraph of the network. Mastodon makes that stronger by removing the algorithm (I’d like there to be a user-customizable feed sort algo by an array of parameters, not sure what the technical limitations to that are: processing, security?)
Comment trees feel better (to me at least), because there is a hierarchical origin, a native indexing by topic>post>comment>countercomment…it sort of resembles how we relate with the world or navigate maps.
What sort of stuff do you like? Maybe some folks can make some good recommendations to jump-start a more interesting experience.
Recommendations and boosts from other users are how I’ve discovered interesting people there, and at this point, my feed feels just as full as my old twitter feed.
If you like news, a lot of breaking news is happening on Mastodon much more accurately and faster than on Twitter. There are a LOT of publications on there now, here are a few off the top of my head:
- Polygon (@[email protected])
- The Conversation (@[email protected])
- The Intercept (@[email protected])
- Voice of America (@[email protected])
- Ars Technica (@[email protected])
- Semafor (@[email protected])
- Kotaku (@[email protected])
- The Christian Science Monitor (@[email protected])
- Fast Company (@[email protected])
- The 19th (@[email protected])
- Vox (@[email protected])
There are a lot more local news sources too, so depending on where you live, you can probably follow news for your specific area. The account @[email protected] regularly bundles up follow suggestions for different regions, interests, and topics. If you go that account and search for a hashtag (i.e., #texas) you’ll get a lot of active and high-quality local accounts to follow.
Did you use Twitter much before then? Some people just don’t like the format. I use it to get updates on some things, but I don’t use it as much as Lemmy (or Reddit before that).
If you did use Twitter, perhaps the content you followed back then still didn’t make its way to Mastodon (or it went to bluesky/threads?)
Last thing you could try is following more people. I find that fediverse platforms need you to seek out content more actively, while old profit driven social media platforms were constantly seeking engagement. On top of that there just isn’t as much content on any of the new platforms compared to the older ones.
That all being said, the quality of the content is equal or better every time
For me, it was the interface. I found it rough around the edges and not as inviting as Twitter used to be. I know it’s seen as superficial but UX/UI is important.
Like, for example, to create a post or reply, the input was on the left navigation panel for some reason. I used to have trouble visually separating one post from the next in my head until I got used to it. Also, the way thread comments were nested could’ve been improved. And why did it only show me the top 5 trending news stories? Why couldn’t I browse more? Idk, overall I felt like I was fighting the UI mentally.
I think Lemmy did a better job subtly improving on the details. I didn’t see Mastodon doing that much when I was on there.
I know it’s seen as superficial but UX/UI is important to me.
Most of the people telling you it’s superficial are programming nerds who themselves are intimidated by UX design so use cope to justify its trivialness.
I know what you mean. I’ve had more than one conversation with devs who didn’t understand design basics.
What platform are you on? There are lots of alternative apps for both iOS and Android, and they can be customized beyond the defaults as well. I primarily use Moshidon on Android, and it’s great.
4chan—>8chan—>Xchan?
Light speed -> ridiculous speed -> ludicrous speed
“They’ve gone to plaid!”
You can find utterly vile replies from blue checks on that site now, even on the most heavenly, innocent, morally correct tweet. It’s insane.
