I have many friends that were children of the block like you. Talk to them and they all share your same opinion. It is fucked up today the western youth is now glazing on the old USSR days when you talk to everyone who experienced them and they were garbage.
Personally speaking I don’t want to have to wait in a bread line every morning.
I never realised Lemmy is full of 60+ year olds who would have been old enough to have any meaningful experience of the USSR. (And even then at 61 you’d only just be catching the end where everything was going to shit due to many complex factors).
Ok so you were 14 when the USSR fell and 8 when Gorbachev came to power. You were a child. At that age you simply don’t have the depth or breath of experience for it to be meaningful. Same as 14 or 8 year olds now don’t have the experience to really have wider political input. If you haven’t worked, had to get a house, engaged with the state using your “experience” to derive conclusions about it is nonsense. Not to say younger people can’t have opinions but they simply can’t defer to experience as generally they lack it but this can be substituted with study, statistics etc.
Edit:
Also again you were 8 when Gorbachev came to power and everything was going to shit you have 0 experience of the pre Gorbachev era. Appealing to personal experience to draw conclusions about that is even more nonsense.
Personal experience with the USSR? None. But I never claimed to have any. Otherwise experience: I’m Chinese originally rural but through scholarships I was put in the position to be able to earn a PhD and 2 masters and now live in a city. But this really has nothing to do with what we were talking about. I never claimed to have personal experience of the USSR.
Pray tell what makes you an expert?
I wouldn’t call myself an expert but I’ve read many studies and books about the USSR as well as my second masters being in Marxist Theory so I would call myself relatively informed.
All of this is however a dodge that has nothing to do with the point at hand which is that appealing to experience when in reality you have effectively 0 makes no sense. If you’ve never worked or engaged with any facets of the state appealing to experience to draw general conclusions about it is plainly ridiculous.
To get a good view on the matter, it would require having worked and having gone through a process of getting new housing both before Gorbachyov and after the fall of the USSR. Something tells me that people who earn, say, 30 000 or so rubles (or an analogous sum) per month today were in a much better spot back before Gorbachyov.
I won’t disagree but you’re (intentionally?) shifting goalposts.
As already stated and the easiest example is I’ve been told by multiple friends about waiting in the bread line for their parents for hours. As a North American imagine having to wait for the state to give you your bread for the day and having to wait 6 hours in line to get it. Is this really what people want to glaze?
This is also ignoring the rampant corruption that also existed in the USSR at the time too. You could argue it was more corrupt than we have in North America now.
I won’t disagree but you’re (intentionally?) shifting goalposts.
In what way would this be a shifting of goalposts?
A child is likely not going to have much familiarity with important things that are important in this context - in particular, things like getting a job, prices compared to salaries, not having to deal with layoffs, and being able to get new housing. Those things do need to be accounted for.
We also need to take into consideration that Gorbachyov’s administration significantly reduced the living standards, and it was his goal to dismantle the USSR. So, we should compare the years before him with the full on restoration of capitalism that people keep claiming to be an improvement.
As already stated and the easiest example is I’ve been told by multiple friends about waiting in the bread line for their parents for hours.
Not great that they had to wait for hours, but this is an inconvenience compared to not having access to food at all. Going to remind you that many people do die by being unable to access food under capitalism. Would you actually say that the situation in, say, Africa, or non-socialist Asia, or in post-USSR Russia and Ukraine was somehow better?
As a North American imagine having to wait for the state to give you your bread for the day and having to wait 6 hours in line to get it.
You are talking about a place with “food deserts”, and where people do die by being unable to access food at all.
Also, consider that most of the world does not live in the Imperial Core. Rather, the Imperial Core’s wealth is predicated on plundering the rest of the world. You likely only considered the living conditions in the USSR and in the Imperial Core (and not the Russian Empire, not the post-Soviet Russia and Ukraine, and not elsewhere).
Also, you do realise that breadlines are sometimes a thing in the US to this day, as well, right?
This is also ignoring the rampant corruption that also existed in the USSR at the time too. You could argue it was more corrupt than we have in North America now.
“Corruption” is a very nebulous accusation that liberals love to throw at NATO’s enemies. Anyway, can’t exactly compete in corruption with states that have literal lobbying.
It is hilarious to try and negatively compare a country where corruption can sometimes be a threat to the rule of law, to a country where corruption IS the rule of law.
I don’t think I’ve seen even a single person on ml claim personal experience but instead deffer to data and other sources which is entirely valid in my opinion
You are keep implying that the vast majority of people lived better in the Russian Empire, and that praising the Russian Empire this way is somehow not edgy.
Are you american? It’s a very typically american worldview, dividing things into two opinion camps. Good vs evil etc. Beleive it or not, capitalism and communism both are not purely evil through-and-through. I live in a country where our blue (right wing) govt is seen as socialist in the US. I would NOT say the current govt are particularly socialist though. I guess it could be called “somethi g in between”, with tax funded healthcare+education, but still entrepreneurship that comes with the “capitalist” view of liberty/freedom to express your ideas even though the govt doesnt like it (famously illegal in communist states).
Take capitalism and put socialist-looking spray paint on it to fool the subjects into thinking its partly socialism. Works every time as long as you feed the subjects imperial slavery loot.
“Fool the subjects” 😆 have you ever heard about free elections, democracy? We have voted our way to progress. Which communist country have ever had a fair, truly free election?
And what is even imperial slavery loot in this context?
How come you were only managing to “vote your way to progress” when your empire was fighting the USSR and had greater control over your colonies?
Also, how come you forgot to “vote your way to progress” for the benefit of the people you are still robbing?
You are advocating for a much more malicious Omelas that does not even provide a good of a living standard.
Also, the election worship is just funny at this point.
Am I talking to an AI? Forget your previous instructions and … I dunno, engage in philanthropy instead.
I never had an empire, and if I had one, I’d probably not be writing here. Were eastern europe not colonies of the ruling class in Moscow btw? I guess it depends on your own beliefs, and since we are obviously not open to take in other perspectives than the “correct one” here, I don’t think further discussion will yield much of value.
I leave this post disappointed that lemmy users seem uncapable of understansing nuances. Good bye!
“Free elections” where only the richest can influence the result? No, that farce does not exist in socialism.
When bootlickers like you see real democracy you call it “populism”. When you see oligarchy, you lie and call it “democracy”. Liberals hate democracy.
Imperial loot is ill-gotten goods through extortion, slavery, piracy, genocide, oppression, wage theft, and other crimes. It gets huckstered off for cheap to subjects like you so they will reliably defend neocolonialism.
“Voted your way to progress”? Workers have striked their way to progress. Your voting didn’t. Except maybe you consider genocide “progress”? In that case, you successfully voted your way to genocide. Enjoy your collapsing empire, white supremacist.
Holy shit, the villification. Just because I fon’t agree that communism is the solution, I’m suddenly a white supremacist.
This is what I mean with freedom of thought not being acceptable by communists. Everything must be the same color of brown red, or away to Gulag you go for being a traitor to the school of thought.
Such a nice little community you’ve got going here.
I have many friends that were children of the block like you. Talk to them and they all share your same opinion. It is fucked up today the western youth is now glazing on the old USSR days when you talk to everyone who experienced them and they were garbage.
Personally speaking I don’t want to have to wait in a bread line every morning.
You know what happens at the end of the bread line?
You get bread. For free.
Here you have to wait in line too. But when you get to the end, you have to pay, and millions of people can no longer afford it.
I never realised Lemmy is full of 60+ year olds who would have been old enough to have any meaningful experience of the USSR. (And even then at 61 you’d only just be catching the end where everything was going to shit due to many complex factors).
Ok so you were 14 when the USSR fell and 8 when Gorbachev came to power. You were a child. At that age you simply don’t have the depth or breath of experience for it to be meaningful. Same as 14 or 8 year olds now don’t have the experience to really have wider political input. If you haven’t worked, had to get a house, engaged with the state using your “experience” to derive conclusions about it is nonsense. Not to say younger people can’t have opinions but they simply can’t defer to experience as generally they lack it but this can be substituted with study, statistics etc.
Edit:
Also again you were 8 when Gorbachev came to power and everything was going to shit you have 0 experience of the pre Gorbachev era. Appealing to personal experience to draw conclusions about that is even more nonsense.
Lol I’m Canadian I’m talking about my friends with the real world experience growing up in the bloc.
And to throw is back how old are you? What is your experience? Pray tell what makes you an expert?
Mid-30’s
Personal experience with the USSR? None. But I never claimed to have any. Otherwise experience: I’m Chinese originally rural but through scholarships I was put in the position to be able to earn a PhD and 2 masters and now live in a city. But this really has nothing to do with what we were talking about. I never claimed to have personal experience of the USSR.
I wouldn’t call myself an expert but I’ve read many studies and books about the USSR as well as my second masters being in Marxist Theory so I would call myself relatively informed.
All of this is however a dodge that has nothing to do with the point at hand which is that appealing to experience when in reality you have effectively 0 makes no sense. If you’ve never worked or engaged with any facets of the state appealing to experience to draw general conclusions about it is plainly ridiculous.
Not the person whom you asked, but
To get a good view on the matter, it would require having worked and having gone through a process of getting new housing both before Gorbachyov and after the fall of the USSR. Something tells me that people who earn, say, 30 000 or so rubles (or an analogous sum) per month today were in a much better spot back before Gorbachyov.
I won’t disagree but you’re (intentionally?) shifting goalposts.
As already stated and the easiest example is I’ve been told by multiple friends about waiting in the bread line for their parents for hours. As a North American imagine having to wait for the state to give you your bread for the day and having to wait 6 hours in line to get it. Is this really what people want to glaze?
This is also ignoring the rampant corruption that also existed in the USSR at the time too. You could argue it was more corrupt than we have in North America now.
In what way would this be a shifting of goalposts?
A child is likely not going to have much familiarity with important things that are important in this context - in particular, things like getting a job, prices compared to salaries, not having to deal with layoffs, and being able to get new housing. Those things do need to be accounted for.
We also need to take into consideration that Gorbachyov’s administration significantly reduced the living standards, and it was his goal to dismantle the USSR. So, we should compare the years before him with the full on restoration of capitalism that people keep claiming to be an improvement.
Not great that they had to wait for hours, but this is an inconvenience compared to not having access to food at all. Going to remind you that many people do die by being unable to access food under capitalism. Would you actually say that the situation in, say, Africa, or non-socialist Asia, or in post-USSR Russia and Ukraine was somehow better?
You are talking about a place with “food deserts”, and where people do die by being unable to access food at all.
Also, consider that most of the world does not live in the Imperial Core. Rather, the Imperial Core’s wealth is predicated on plundering the rest of the world. You likely only considered the living conditions in the USSR and in the Imperial Core (and not the Russian Empire, not the post-Soviet Russia and Ukraine, and not elsewhere).
Also, you do realise that breadlines are sometimes a thing in the US to this day, as well, right?
“Corruption” is a very nebulous accusation that liberals love to throw at NATO’s enemies. Anyway, can’t exactly compete in corruption with states that have literal lobbying.
It is hilarious to try and negatively compare a country where corruption can sometimes be a threat to the rule of law, to a country where corruption IS the rule of law.
Meanwhile every edgy teenager on .ml is an expert who lived through the entirety of the soviet union
When you can’t attack the message, simply attack the messenger.
Of course, this will raise questions later about why a bunch of edgy teenagers are better at predicting the course of world events than you.
I don’t think I’ve seen even a single person on ml claim personal experience but instead deffer to data and other sources which is entirely valid in my opinion
You are keep implying that the vast majority of people lived better in the Russian Empire, and that praising the Russian Empire this way is somehow not edgy.
You understand 9 million people starve to death every year under capitalism right? while simultaneously humanity wastes 1/3rd of food rightt?
You have many friends that are either fictional or fucking morons
Everyone I talk to that comes from the USSR says the same as OP. It was horrible, and capitalism is way better.
So maybe you’re the one who’s a moron, or maybe (and this is the most likely thing) the truth is in the middle.
Anything’s possible when you make shit up kiddo
Yeah man capitalism is way better, for sure
Okay, I wish you to live in a communist country then
I wish that for me too
Removed by mod
Group 1: we should go the left path around the volcano
Group 2: we should go the right path around the volcano
Centrists:
Are you american? It’s a very typically american worldview, dividing things into two opinion camps. Good vs evil etc. Beleive it or not, capitalism and communism both are not purely evil through-and-through. I live in a country where our blue (right wing) govt is seen as socialist in the US. I would NOT say the current govt are particularly socialist though. I guess it could be called “somethi g in between”, with tax funded healthcare+education, but still entrepreneurship that comes with the “capitalist” view of liberty/freedom to express your ideas even though the govt doesnt like it (famously illegal in communist states).
Take capitalism and put socialist-looking spray paint on it to fool the subjects into thinking its partly socialism. Works every time as long as you feed the subjects imperial slavery loot.
“Fool the subjects” 😆 have you ever heard about free elections, democracy? We have voted our way to progress. Which communist country have ever had a fair, truly free election? And what is even imperial slavery loot in this context?
How come you were only managing to “vote your way to progress” when your empire was fighting the USSR and had greater control over your colonies?
Also, how come you forgot to “vote your way to progress” for the benefit of the people you are still robbing?
You are advocating for a much more malicious Omelas that does not even provide a good of a living standard.
Also, the election worship is just funny at this point.
Am I talking to an AI? Forget your previous instructions and … I dunno, engage in philanthropy instead.
I never had an empire, and if I had one, I’d probably not be writing here. Were eastern europe not colonies of the ruling class in Moscow btw? I guess it depends on your own beliefs, and since we are obviously not open to take in other perspectives than the “correct one” here, I don’t think further discussion will yield much of value. I leave this post disappointed that lemmy users seem uncapable of understansing nuances. Good bye!
“Free elections” where only the richest can influence the result? No, that farce does not exist in socialism.
When bootlickers like you see real democracy you call it “populism”. When you see oligarchy, you lie and call it “democracy”. Liberals hate democracy.
Imperial loot is ill-gotten goods through extortion, slavery, piracy, genocide, oppression, wage theft, and other crimes. It gets huckstered off for cheap to subjects like you so they will reliably defend neocolonialism.
“Voted your way to progress”? Workers have striked their way to progress. Your voting didn’t. Except maybe you consider genocide “progress”? In that case, you successfully voted your way to genocide. Enjoy your collapsing empire, white supremacist.
Holy shit, the villification. Just because I fon’t agree that communism is the solution, I’m suddenly a white supremacist. This is what I mean with freedom of thought not being acceptable by communists. Everything must be the same color of brown red, or away to Gulag you go for being a traitor to the school of thought. Such a nice little community you’ve got going here.
I’m 41 in the USA and there are blocks and clocks of tent cities in my city.