Why: so your site can’t be taken down by the USA.

At least one .org website that I know of has been shut down because the USA pressured the US organisation that controls the .org domain into doing so.

They could repeat this at will for quite a number of sites.

An immediate step to prevent this possibility, if you run a website, is to register a domain that is controled outside the US.

I have not found one article that just lists them all, and who controls them, but most TLDs have their own wikipedia article, e.g. .org (US controled), .eu (not US controled, yay) etc.

Ultimately ICANN controls all of this, and that’s a US orga too, and Trump could bully them into doing shit, too. But the people who know about these things don’t seem to think that’s a likely threat right now. Also ICANN seems to defer a lot of tasks to exactly these TLD orgas. After all the internet still is (somewhat) decentralized.

Context

https://web.archive.org/web/20260829204913/https://www.inventati.org/campaign/press

Further reading

https://blog.apnic.net/2023/01/13/who-controls-the-internet/
https://netmeister.org/blog/tlds.html

List of all most TLDs created with this script.

  • djhandsome@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    4 hours ago

    isn’t there a solution for a decentralized dns? Like DHTs or so? Maybe just switch your dns to a more open one. DNS over https could be better. Run your own dns roor server?

  • drath@lemmy.drath.ruEnglish
    11·
    3 hours ago

    … all of them? Pretty much all the root DNS servers are run by USA or US-based companies. The only place where uncle Sam’s hand won’t reach you are the countries that took precautions to isolate themselves like Russia, China, North Korea, etc, but you’d have other hands to worry about, or neo-DNS systems like .onion, .i2p and that crypto thing I don’t remember the name of.

    • A_norny_mousse@piefed.zipOPEnglish
      413·
      19 hours ago

      edit:

      I didn’t really promise that. I would’ve delivered it but couldn’t find one. But you can check TLDs individually on wikipedia, as I wrote.

      I don’t think packaged solution delivery is the role of YSK - it’s more about raising awareness.

  • Tom@lemmy.worldEnglish
    92·
    22 hours ago

    (This comment is a draft and, as such, still subject to change):

    But the people who know about these things don’t seem to think that’s a likely threat right now.

    Nonetheless I would advise to be prepared in case trump suddenly decrees that .gl is now .us or that there’s a 4 million percent tariff on using a .ca domain or some such foolishness. If one can suddenly declare the gulf of mexico to be the gulf of america or lake ontario to be lake america one can certainly put pressure on a single organisation to change whatever they feel like.

    As an internet user you can:

    • create a hosts and/or hosts.BAK file and make generous use of it [1]. Think of digital infrastructure you need to use everyday and/or in case of an emergency.

    • keep a list of functioning dns servers owned and operated by organizations that will likely roll back any nonsensical superimposed changes. Consider local, independent, non-US entities.

    • when push comes to shove, be prepared to use alternative namespaces such as the one operated by opennic [2]

    As an internet proprietor you can:

    • prepare yourself and your servers for such a scenario

    • register (and use) a domain in an alternative namespace

    • make users aware of alternative methods to reach you/your services

    As a network operator you can:

    • maintain awareness and ensure preparedness

    • maintain (auxiliary) digital infrastructure independently on non-US soil

    • support alternative namespaces

    • peer with sovereign non-US AS

    1. hosts (file) - wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosts_file ↩︎

    2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenNIC#OpenNIC_namespaces ↩︎

    • A_norny_mousse@piefed.zipOPEnglish
      5·
      22 hours ago

      when push comes to shove, be prepared to use alternative namespaces such as the one operated by opennic [1]

      I already do but autistici.org isn’t reachable through OpenNIC either. The explanation is, essentially, that they cannot edit existing entries from the lists they get from upstream (something about DNSSEC) and that they cannot legally hand out .org domains themselves.

      But yeah, I think autistici/inventati will evtl. use a TLD that isn’t under US control.

      In any case, we, i.e. the non-US parts of the world, will have to tackle these things evtl. because even if things get better in the USA, I don’t think they’re going to roll back to before the Patriot Act.

      1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenNIC#OpenNIC_namespaces ↩︎

      • Tom@lemmy.worldEnglish
        61·
        22 hours ago

        I’m afraid the non-US parts of the world need to decentralize the internet sooner rather than later

        in the meantime autistici can register an .epic/.indy/.libre domain or help set up a new tld of their choosing in an alternative namespace

        • A_norny_mousse@piefed.zipOPEnglish
          3·
          19 hours ago

          Why would they use a TLD that isn’t recognized by most DNS providers for e.g. their email services?

          People generally want their email addresses to be reachable. They don’t just use it for super secret activism.

          • Tom@lemmy.worldEnglish
            31·
            11 hours ago

            because of what’s going on right now. because they can’t get a domain from any organization that’s under the auspices of icann

            edit: the alternative is for autistici to go nameless and for autistici users to type in an ip address instead of https://www.autistici.$TLD

            to make the web resistant to such censorship we need to have service providers that accept and support alternative namespaces; the alternative to that is for service providers to just stop accepting the authority of the us government and organizations such as icann and stop accepting routes and dns records from entities that do[1] and create their own routing tables and dns records, thus effectively ending the inter part of the internet

            edit to your sneaky 8pm edit, which was:

            People generally want their email addresses to be reachable. They don’t just use it for super secret activism.

            well, they don’t have a usable domain now and they can’t get one either because icann will just block it. what do you want me to do about it? take over icann?

            these are their email options:

            1. use an email address without a domain (e.g. [email protected])
            2. use gmail
            3. use a domain in an alternative namespace so at least people using a domain name server capable of resolving the aforementioned alternative namespace can address the user by domain (e.g. [email protected])

            thanks for the sneaky 12:26am downvotes by the way, that really makes me want to help autistici with their issues, or you with yours.

            1. accept the authority of the us government and organizations such as icann ↩︎

            • 🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              20 hours ago

              We need for Trump et all¹ to make some larger mistakes and do some really stupid things that cause a significant percentage of people to seek alternative ways of access, i.e. enough stupid shit to cause people to set up alternate root DNS systems.

              Of course, people with the capacity to do that are like Google et all, who - in that specific example - have set up 8.8.8.8 (etc) and currently seem to be acting pretty decently, but who knows how long that would last, and if a real battle of DNS started up, you’d want stuff hosted by people in other countries anyway, soooo…

              But it seems like we’re very far out from that war.

              ¹ i.e. the fascists

  • slazer2au@lemmy.worldEnglish
    8·
    1 day ago

    .EU still falls under icann manglement but at a remove, so yes the fascist can still mess with .EU domains.

    It may be delegated to an EU register, but it still has to follow ICANN policy. Just like .au has to.

    • A_norny_mousse@piefed.zipOPEnglish
      10·
      1 day ago

      I addressed this issue in my post; I don’t disagree, but people who know far more about this than I do not seem to see this as an immediate threat. See the autistici/inventati press release and some comments under my posts, e.g. from people at OpenNIC. ICANN seems to defer responsibilities, so they cannot - afaiu - pick and choose to block sites as per The Don’s will.

      If that was a realistic option I think we’d have seen far more shutdowns already.

      Of course, ultimately all of DNS is controled by ICANN, a US orga. Trump could effectively shut down the whole internet, we’d have to revert to numerical IPs. A scary thought.

      • originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com
        7·
        1 day ago

        DNS is controled by ICANN, a US orga. Trump could effectively shut down the whole internet

        dude. dont put this in print, he might find out. the guy has zero boundaries, ethics or morals.

        • 🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          20 hours ago

          It would cause chaos, yes, like other stupid things he’s done.

          But in addition to the chaos, people would spin up solutions, and as things settled down and everyone got back online again, the result would be a decentralized internet.

          So it’s sort of the same as wishing for a civil war, or wishing against one: Either way, the result might end up with things in a much better state, although the pain would be real in the meantime. (and lives lost in the case of civil war - and in both cases, not guaranteed to be better, although if things got to that point, they probably would end up being better).

          Don’t think I’m wishing he’ll do it, mind. But if he does stupid things… that will be the result.

        • Klear@piefed.worldEnglish
          5·
          1 day ago

          And it’s a well-known fact he and his admin spend most of their time scouring Lemmy for ways to fuck with the world.

      • Richard@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        1 day ago

        Of course, ultimately all of DNS is controled by ICANN, a US orga. Trump could effectively shut down the whole internet, we’d have to revert to numerical IPs. A scary thought.

        I understand the sentiment but that is not effectively possible. It is not ICANN that de facto controls domain name resolution, it is the name servers that are spread around the world. A supranational organisation such as the European Union, or countries like Russia and China, can have their DNS servers continue to resolve domain names to the correct IP addresses regardless of what decisions ICANN or other TLD ownership entities make.

        • A_norny_mousse@piefed.zipOPEnglish
          3·
          1 day ago

          that is not effectively possible

          It would be impractical, yes.

          it is the name servers that are spread around the world

          But the nameservers get their lists from elsewhere - i.e. PIR in this case - and while it’s technically possible to amend these lists, they don’t typically do so. The few that do, just add a few tlds, but don’t edit existing entries in the lists they get.

          But I agree that is something the rest of the world will need to look into rather sooner than later.

        • Tom@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          21 hours ago

          who’s to say these supranational organizations won’t impose their own requirements? let alone stand for a free and open internet?

          who’s to say they will propagate to (self-purported) external entities at all?

          that is not effectively possible.

          Consider a catastrophic breakdown of the root system caused by a geopolitical incident. I think you will find that as the situation changes so too will the postures and standpoints of these supranational organizations and therefore the digital landscape, and that which you have previously held effectively impossible can very rapidly become not just a possibility but a likelihood.

  • 🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞@lemmy.worldEnglish
    22·
    20 hours ago

    Not to defend this bullshit action (by the US government) in any way, but it seems like panic might be premature - whereas caution is always a good idea.

    As far as I can tell, this bullshit reason about “antifa” (which is US fascism bullshit¹) is, so far, unprecedented. This is the first time.

    Is this the last time? Sure, that seems unlikely.

    And again, I emphasize that I think caution is advised.

    So sure, if you’re starting up an organization or otherwise running one that might piss of the fascists, making sure you’re running it on a TLD (or ccTLD) that is not controlled by a US organization is not a bad idea.

    But if you’re making those sorts of plans, definitely look at other ways of communication that also don’t rely on US-controlled orgs, because as pointed out, ICANN is a US org, so if they can put pressure on a registrar, they can put pressure on ICANN for sure.

    ¹ as opposed to “terrorism”, which is at least debatable and probably often valid and only somewhat abused