cross-posted from: https://piefed.world/c/scientificarticles/p/1373091/cannabis-edibles-impair-driving-even-below-drug-driving-limits
Researchers analysed 40 regular edible cannabis users, testing their driving skills in a simulator before and after eating THC gummies. Higher doses led to poorer lane control, slower reactions and less consistent speed, while participants also reported feeling less able to drive. The participants’ blood tests came in below the legal thresholds for driving in Canada and New Zealand (5 ng/mL). The researchers say that edibles lead to lower peak blood THC concentrations than smoking, making it difficult to use blood THC levels alone to determine whether someone is actually impaired.
As a frequent cannabis user the number of people who claim to be able to hit a vape or take some gummies and still drive is insane to me. The loss of reaction time and concentration alone, even being mildly high i couldn’t fathom getting behind the wheel.
When you draw an arbitrary line somewhere, stuff is gonna land on both sides of it.
This is sometimes called dichotomania (our obsession with splitting things into black and white bins, when reality is a spectrum), and it affects a lot of things, especially in medicine and law.
yes we know, alcohol also does this and is perfectly legal to consume. just not while driving.
On the other hand, the number of times I’ve seen “Being high isn’t the same as being drunk, it’s okay to drive” has been FAR more than the number of times I’ve seen people trying to defend drunk drivers. It’s a useful study.
It isn’t trying to argue that edibles should be illegal, it’s just research on a little-understood aspect.
Importance Use of cannabis edibles is increasing, yet little is known about the impact of edibles on driving, which is particularly important in the context of per se thresholds (commonly 2 or 5 ng/mL) used to enforce cannabis-impaired driving laws.
The main difference I remember from being drunk vs being high at the wheel is that when high you’re rather aware of the impediment while with alcohol there’s that point where is the total opposite, you feel like you’re driving even better than sober. I’m far more scared of the latter.
the senate of Canada found that it makes users, ‘MORE cautious’
Chapter 8 – Driving under the influence of cannabis
If there is one issue, other than the effects of cannabis use on young people or the effects of substance abuse, that is likely to be of concern to society and governments, then it is certainly the effect of the use of cannabis on the ability to drive a vehicle. We are already familiar with the effects of alcohol on driving and the many accidents involving injuries or deaths to young people. In spite of the decreases in use noted in recent years, one fatal accident caused by the use of a substance is one accident too many.
Next to alcohol, cannabis is the most widely used psychoactive substance, particularly among young people in the 16-25 age group. Casual use occurs most often in a festive setting, at weekend parties, often accompanied by alcohol. People in this age group are also the most likely to have a car accident and are also susceptible to having an accident while impaired.
Cannabis affects psychomotor skills for up to five hours after use. The psychoactive effects of cannabis are also dependent on the amount used, the concentration of THC and the morphology, experience and expectations of users. But what are the specific effects of cannabis on the ability to drive motor vehicles? What are the effects of alcohol and cannabis combined? And what tools are available to detect the presence of a concentration of THC that is likely to significantly affect the psychomotor skills involved in vehicle operation?
This chapter is divided into three sections. The first considers the ways of testing for the presence of cannabinoids in the body. The second analyzes studies on the known prevalence of impaired driving, in both accident and non-accident contexts. The third and last summarizes what is known about the effects of cannabis on driving based on both laboratory and field studies. As in the other chapters, the Committee then draw its own conclusions.
The Committee feels it is quite likely that cannabis makes users more cautious, partly because they are aware of their deficiencies and compensate by reducing speed and taking fewer risks. However, because what we are dealing with is no longer the consequences on the users themselves, but the possible consequences of their behaviour on others, the Committee feels that it is important to opt for the greatest possible caution with respect to the issue of driving under the influence of cannabis.
Given what we have seen, we conclude the following:
Ø Between 5% and 12% of drivers may drive under the influence of cannabis; this percentage increases to over 20% for young men under 25 years of age;
Ø Cannabis alone, particularly in low doses, has little effect on the skills involved in automobile driving. Cannabis leads to a more cautious style of driving. However it has a negative impact on decision time and trajectory. This in itself does not mean that drivers under the influence of cannabis represent a traffic safety risk;
Ø A significant percentage of impaired drivers test positive for cannabis and alcohol together. The effects of cannabis when combined with alcohol are more significant than is the case for alcohol alone;
Ø Despite recent progress, there does not yet exist a reliable and non intrusive rapid roadside testing method;
Ø Blood remains the best medium for detecting the presence of cannabinoids;
Ø Urine cannot screen for recent use;
Ø Saliva is promising, but rapid commercial tests are not yet reliable enough;
Ø The visual recognition method used by police officers has yielded satisfactory results; and
Ø It is essential to conduct studies in order to develop a rapid testing tool and learn more about the driving habits of cannabis users.
https://sencanada.ca/en/content/SEN/Committee/371/ille/rep/summary-e
The Committee feels it is quite likely that cannabis makes users more cautious
This isn’t a scientific finding, this is speculation based on preliminary evidence.
It is essential to conduct studies in order to develop a rapid testing tool and learn more about the driving habits of cannabis users.
That’s what the study posted here is doing.
I feel like you’re taking a super defensive stance here, like you feel that this study is attacking you in some way, and I’m curious why that is.
Yeah it’s weird. I like dope, I think driving high is probably largely significantly safer than alcohol and probably not significantly more risky than when sober. I still choose personally not to drive stoned, and I completely agree that we need to have SOME KIND of enforcement for road users. But criminalizing it itself seems like perhaps the wrong approach. Surely it should just be an aggravating factor if you are actually convicted of a driving offence, unless you are caught operating a vehicle while extremely impaired.
Whatever your stance though, if you can’t take studies at face value and accept that you might not like the findings, what are we even doing.
I can say from personal experience the the effect of driving more cautiously is real, but that’s because i could tell i couldnt react or think nearly as quickly as normal. If some kid came running from a blind spot, i would have hit them, no doubt. Definitely would not recommend. (I’ve only driven while high twice, both times because the person asking me didn’t know i was high, and i wanted to keep it that way. Would never do it again, at least i dont care if people know i smoke anymore)
I think they should have an impairment study where they compare the two, and settle once and for all, how blazed you have to be before you are as incompetent to drive as you would be if you were at the legal limit for alcohol.
That is going to be wholly and completely individual. Even for the same person, tolerance changes A LOT between not smoking for a month and even just a smoke once in a while. Let alone the people that wake and bake every morning.
Some peoples’ blazed out of their mind is someone else’s morning routine when it comes to how much THC is in their system, and the tolerant potheads will perform infinitely better than a newbie or seldom smoker.
Does it really matter? Less bad doesn’t mean good. We’re talking about the lives of innocent bystanders here. If taking additional risk is avoidable, it should be avoided.
I hate how many people say they drive fine or better high.
When I’m high, I can’t even remember the next sentence I wanted to say was. I know that depends on quantity and type, but at no time while high or after eating an edible, would I have even considered driving a good idea, it even feels like I shouldn’t be near a bonfire.
When you are impaired you cannot accurately assess your behaviour. Objectively speaking, studies show alcohol or cannabis both degrade your reaction time and judgement. If you want the privilege of driving a multi-ton pile of steel going 40+km/h then you need to respect that what you’re doing can change someone else’s (and your own) life in a matter of milliseconds.
I’m fine with people consuming both alcohol and cannabis at their own leisure. I really hate the calls to ban both by people like MADD as well. I find the health claims are not as clear as you’d think.
I agree on principle, but the big problem is it’s extremely subjective. Some people are basically normal when they’re just on one or two bowls. Others, especially newbies or seldom smokers, can sometimes barely string a cohesive thought together after one bowl.
It can even happen to the same person if their smoking habits change. I would definitely know because I’ve been on both sides of the fence multiple times over the years, and it’s been the same for my smoking friends.
You’re probably right, but let’s say you’re high and totally fine, a kid runs into the road and you hit them, how do you defend to the world that this was a tragedy that couldn’t be avoided and not due to impairment? I don’t think you could convince a jury of that, so even if right, you’d be screwed.
But I feel like there should be the obvious study of cannabis users at different levels of THC, and different tolerance histories on a standard obstacle coarse with response times measured when high vs not. I’m shocked that such a study isn’t readily available. That would be the gold standard (within group and within subject, plus dose response).
I did a quick search and found a bunch of “driving simulations” like this which shows that more THC resulted in worse driving and higher speed — which to me says the “I actually drive slower” argument doesn’t work.
But when you look at the actual effect sizes in the studies, they may be statistically significant but practically they’re only tens to hundreds of ms delay in reaction, so it’s hard to get a clear picture. Is 1/30th a second enough to prevent an issue? Over a million people and a million kilometres of driving, it probably adds up, but on an individual level you’d almost never be able to attribute an accident to this. I know my own reaction time to visual stimulus is like 150-300ms when we measured it for a physics lab project years ago (no idea if we did a good job or not), so like 5-10% of that seems fine.
tl;dr I’ve basically argued both ways, I tried doing a fact check and it’s messy, and I’m a little disappointed that the ethics teams can’t figure how to actually study this correctly.
Oh it’s definitely worth studying, and I do not mean to defend “influenced” driving in any way. I only mean to point out any hard-line law is going to be very inadequate for THC.
Hopefully, there are other chemicals that can indicate a tolerance level, otherwise it’ll be near impossible to make an effective law that isn’t simply, “do not drive if under an influence.”. Which… wouldn’t be the worst thing from a safety point of view, but not so good from a, “let people do things that don’t harm others” PoV.
I hate how many people say they drive fine or better high.
I’ve been rear-ended twice by stoned drivers.
Young later called 911 when Dominelli began to feel ill from the chocolate and he was taken to a hospital in the early hours of Jan. 28. One of the officers who came to help slipped and fell on the ice, and later suffered a concussion, Ciobotaru said.
I wonder if they too partook in the stolen chocolate
oh fuck all this bullshit and stoner justifications.
You get into a moving car as a driver, we need zero tolerance for any impairment.
As a stoner I’m with you. You’re driving a death machine, you should be stone cold sober behind the wheel. That said, are we talking testing positive for THC as in they were actively high, or simply that they had it in their system? Because it persists for quite a long time after the high ends.
