‘What's striking isn't just that young adults are delaying milestones - it's that many are questioning whether those life events are achievable at all’ one financial expert said
And its probably more about stability than an absolute rich/poor number. I see plenty of people throwing money away and then complain about never having any money.
Some monthly expenses I see - £250 on multiple food deliveries a week. £400 to constantly have a new car when the car they drove 3 cars ago is still working fine, while only commuting 2km to work. £80 on a phone.
Stop doing that for 18 months and you have a pretty good house deposit in most of the country.
I grew up poor. I’m happy to be alive and overall had a loving childhood. Yes, I had to deal with anxiety around necessities some of my peers didn’t, but it didn’t stop me from enjoying my life and building some memories I still hold dear.
It is possible to be happy even in those circumstances.
I think humans have been having kids for thousands of years in all sorts of conditions, and we only recently have developed this “perfect or nothing” approach to when it’s okay to have kids. Some kids grow up poor. You can still build a fulfilling life for a child. You really don’t need to build a shield from every life struggle first… we’ve never needed to as a species, and my own experience confirms it isn’t necessarily all misery. Especially in countries that provide pretty generous financial aid specifically for those kids.
Some monthly expenses I see - £250 on multiple food deliveries a week. £400 to constantly have a new car when the car they drove 3 cars ago is still working fine, while only commuting 2km to work. £80 on a phone.
Stop doing that for 18 months and you have a pretty good house deposit in most of the country.
I will say that my juxtaposed experience both in the US and central Europe is that while a certain number of Americans are definitely struggling hard, there really is some lifestyle creep in that country that doesn’t get talked about with the nuance it deserves. It’s either ideologues bringing it up in bad faith to undermine arguments about wealth inequality, or people insisting that there’s no problem at all with overconsumption among anyone making under $50k/year. So I don’t entirely disagree with this.
I think it is more to try and have some amount of stability, rather than strictly how much you earn.
I used to live on £8k (part time apprenticeship), way below the poverty line apparently but I wasn’t really worrying about money either.
Suppose it depends what you view poor as being. Some seem to view it as always being on the edge of running out of money at the end of each month. If that is the case then I wasn’t poor despite only making £8k and I remember at the time hearing of people on over £25k who constantly were.
Even when I was on near minimum wage a couple years ago (£25k) I didn’t really know what to spend all my money on. Honestly? I still don’t. Picked up some hobbies but there is only so much you can spend gardening, a fork and spade don’t cost that much and plants turn into more plants for free. Allotment rent is like £50/year.
I agree, but at that point we’re really just saying you have a responsibility to be prepared to be especially frugal if you’re going to have kids while poor. I think that’s a subtle but important distinction. It is true, though.
It’s a hard conversation to have, because people bringing up wealth inequality certainly have a point, the data is there (at least for the US and where I am in Europe now), and I think there’s both a moral and practical argument for why that should be addressed. But again, lifestyle creep is real. For example, Americans are complaining about exorbitant housing prices… meanwhile the average American home size is something like twice most of Europe. Of course that’s going to be comparatively expensive. Part of that is the fault of construction companies, but that’s partially driven by demand.
Leasing cars and changing them out every few years is way too common, I knew plenty of people near minimum wage doing that. Like you said, food delivery is a big one. Instagrammable vacations is another.
There’s very much a “keeping up with the Jones’” culture that leads people who should by all rights be firmly middle class to feel like they’re much poorer than they really are. They get conflated with people who truly are poor, which is a much harder position to be in… the constant stress and anxiety of being poor, especially as an adult, leads to dopamine seeking from sources like cigarettes, alcohol, fast food… then there’s the issue of many working poor being “time poor”, encouraging that kind of delivery eating.
It’s a hard nut to crack because there are legitimate systemic, material issues driving some of it, and some simply “bad culture” around money and they’re pretty tangled up.
There are also different degrees of poor. Or at least below what most consider middle class to be. What is someone who is financially comfortable but clearly working class? People in stable but fairly low income jobs - basically me tbh.
My middle class friends view me as frugal. I say £24 for a pizza is crazy. Its flour and water with a topping of cheese and tomato. Yes, a plain margarita being sold for £24. Oh its “artisan sourdough” - fuck off, that is just some dough you left in the back of a cupboard for a week. I make my own sourdough because its cheaper than buying yeast.
That’s besides the point, of the owning class wanted me to have children, they wouldve find a way, for the common folk to be financially possible. The fact that poor people cannot afford children, even now, is part of their genocide against us and proofs the point.
And its probably more about stability than an absolute rich/poor number. I see plenty of people throwing money away and then complain about never having any money.
That is besides the fact that the ridiculous wealth Gap between the Epstein class and us is just too extreme. If the Gap was closed we could live Out lives/“throw away money” and still have children.
Some monthly expenses I see - £250 on multiple food deliveries a week. £400 to constantly have a new car when the car they drove 3 cars ago is still working fine, while only commuting 2km to work. £80 on a phone.
You see that? Do you know that they could use deliveries because they dont have the time? Or that their car was leased and they needed to give it back? Same with phones?
Stop doing that for 18 months and you have a pretty good house deposit in most of the country.
That still not Epstein class Levels rich which is the point. You are the best example how this system values your bank Account more than human Life. You proof with your Arguments that poor people should First steife for Money, before they propagate and with Money comes the addiction to Status and showing Off, which is often Times done by people who cannot afford, out of shame.
Your whole comment proofs me right. You merely justified that poor people should be exterminated. Not by force, for now, but slowly through financial sterilization.
So you say with dont have kids you cant afford, poor people shouldnt have kids?
Do you want a good life for them or not?
And its probably more about stability than an absolute rich/poor number. I see plenty of people throwing money away and then complain about never having any money.
Some monthly expenses I see - £250 on multiple food deliveries a week. £400 to constantly have a new car when the car they drove 3 cars ago is still working fine, while only commuting 2km to work. £80 on a phone.
Stop doing that for 18 months and you have a pretty good house deposit in most of the country.
I grew up poor. I’m happy to be alive and overall had a loving childhood. Yes, I had to deal with anxiety around necessities some of my peers didn’t, but it didn’t stop me from enjoying my life and building some memories I still hold dear.
It is possible to be happy even in those circumstances.
I think humans have been having kids for thousands of years in all sorts of conditions, and we only recently have developed this “perfect or nothing” approach to when it’s okay to have kids. Some kids grow up poor. You can still build a fulfilling life for a child. You really don’t need to build a shield from every life struggle first… we’ve never needed to as a species, and my own experience confirms it isn’t necessarily all misery. Especially in countries that provide pretty generous financial aid specifically for those kids.
I will say that my juxtaposed experience both in the US and central Europe is that while a certain number of Americans are definitely struggling hard, there really is some lifestyle creep in that country that doesn’t get talked about with the nuance it deserves. It’s either ideologues bringing it up in bad faith to undermine arguments about wealth inequality, or people insisting that there’s no problem at all with overconsumption among anyone making under $50k/year. So I don’t entirely disagree with this.
I think it is more to try and have some amount of stability, rather than strictly how much you earn.
I used to live on £8k (part time apprenticeship), way below the poverty line apparently but I wasn’t really worrying about money either.
Suppose it depends what you view poor as being. Some seem to view it as always being on the edge of running out of money at the end of each month. If that is the case then I wasn’t poor despite only making £8k and I remember at the time hearing of people on over £25k who constantly were.
Even when I was on near minimum wage a couple years ago (£25k) I didn’t really know what to spend all my money on. Honestly? I still don’t. Picked up some hobbies but there is only so much you can spend gardening, a fork and spade don’t cost that much and plants turn into more plants for free. Allotment rent is like £50/year.
I agree, but at that point we’re really just saying you have a responsibility to be prepared to be especially frugal if you’re going to have kids while poor. I think that’s a subtle but important distinction. It is true, though.
It’s a hard conversation to have, because people bringing up wealth inequality certainly have a point, the data is there (at least for the US and where I am in Europe now), and I think there’s both a moral and practical argument for why that should be addressed. But again, lifestyle creep is real. For example, Americans are complaining about exorbitant housing prices… meanwhile the average American home size is something like twice most of Europe. Of course that’s going to be comparatively expensive. Part of that is the fault of construction companies, but that’s partially driven by demand.
Leasing cars and changing them out every few years is way too common, I knew plenty of people near minimum wage doing that. Like you said, food delivery is a big one. Instagrammable vacations is another.
There’s very much a “keeping up with the Jones’” culture that leads people who should by all rights be firmly middle class to feel like they’re much poorer than they really are. They get conflated with people who truly are poor, which is a much harder position to be in… the constant stress and anxiety of being poor, especially as an adult, leads to dopamine seeking from sources like cigarettes, alcohol, fast food… then there’s the issue of many working poor being “time poor”, encouraging that kind of delivery eating.
It’s a hard nut to crack because there are legitimate systemic, material issues driving some of it, and some simply “bad culture” around money and they’re pretty tangled up.
There are also different degrees of poor. Or at least below what most consider middle class to be. What is someone who is financially comfortable but clearly working class? People in stable but fairly low income jobs - basically me tbh.
My middle class friends view me as frugal. I say £24 for a pizza is crazy. Its flour and water with a topping of cheese and tomato. Yes, a plain margarita being sold for £24. Oh its “artisan sourdough” - fuck off, that is just some dough you left in the back of a cupboard for a week. I make my own sourdough because its cheaper than buying yeast.
That’s besides the point, of the owning class wanted me to have children, they wouldve find a way, for the common folk to be financially possible. The fact that poor people cannot afford children, even now, is part of their genocide against us and proofs the point.
That is besides the fact that the ridiculous wealth Gap between the Epstein class and us is just too extreme. If the Gap was closed we could live Out lives/“throw away money” and still have children.
You see that? Do you know that they could use deliveries because they dont have the time? Or that their car was leased and they needed to give it back? Same with phones?
That still not Epstein class Levels rich which is the point. You are the best example how this system values your bank Account more than human Life. You proof with your Arguments that poor people should First steife for Money, before they propagate and with Money comes the addiction to Status and showing Off, which is often Times done by people who cannot afford, out of shame.
Your whole comment proofs me right. You merely justified that poor people should be exterminated. Not by force, for now, but slowly through financial sterilization.
If you think I said that there really is no point in trying with you.
Good,i dont need to talk to traitors