• deft@lemmy.wtfBanned
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    59
    arrow-down
    9
    ·
    24 hours ago

    Anyone who thinks he is defending himself is a fucking moron proof is in the pudding

    She tries to stop him grabbing his drink, must’ve known something was coming. He kicks he when she’s down.

    What else do you idiots need? Humans are worthless

    • collapse_already@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      51
      ·
      23 hours ago

      They both suck. She initiated the physical confrontation. He went too far. She went back for more grabbing a weapon (the bottle) when it was clear she was out matched. A night in the drunk tank would be good for both of them.

      • deft@lemmy.wtfBanned
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        27
        arrow-down
        12
        ·
        23 hours ago

        You’re outside your mind thinking she initiated anything. At no moment was he unable to leave. Every action he took was aggressive every action she took was preventative.

        If I see someone reach for a drink and then instantly it is thrown in their face, it’s clear what they expected and why they went for the drink.

      • deft@lemmy.wtfBanned
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        20
        arrow-down
        10
        ·
        23 hours ago
        • Throws drink in face, shoves, kicks, shoves.

        • Reaches for bottle before drink thrown in face, reaches for bottle a second time but does nothing with it.

        Those are the actions both parties took. You’re out of your mind to think context is even needed. At no moment was she stopping him from leaving he initiated and continued. Are you brain dead?

        • DrunkenDuckling@lemmus.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          11
          ·
          7 hours ago

          You’re a misogynist, woman are capable of aggression.

          She invades his space, trying to grab his drink. That’s primary aggression. She approaches him (!) with a bottle in hand, that’s a threat with a dangerous weapon.

          Meanwhile he:

          Throws drink in face (unnecessary but not dangerous) Repeatedly tries to back up while she appraoches. Pushes her to regain personal space (most non-violent possible reaction)

          • deft@lemmy.wtfBanned
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            7 hours ago

            Instigates the aggression, continues aggression. Escalates the aggression. Defending himself. Sure.

            Absolute scumbag shut up

            • DrunkenDuckling@lemmus.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              11
              ·
              7 hours ago

              Are you blind or just a misogynist who cant accept that women are human beings capable of aggression?

              • deft@lemmy.wtfBanned
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                9
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                6 hours ago

                Are you fucking retarded like actually?

                She touches his drink, he throws it in her face. She stands up and reaches for him. He throws her down, THEN HE STANDS UP AND KICKS HER.

                She stands up again unsure what aggression will continue because this cunt has instigated violence and then escalated violence. He shoves her to the ground.

                He could’ve left, left again, left a third time. He didn’t. You’re a fucking moron if you think anything else, so I guess you’re a fucking moron.

        • Peacepath@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          20 hours ago

          Of course you can’t judge without context: we can’t understand. We don’t know their relationship, their history, nor what they say to each other.

          Context may make thing even worse for the guy? Or maybe his reaction is, still not pardonable, but more understandable with the context?

          Getting the context doesn’t mean your favorit side will loose anything. But judging without context is accepting to deliver unfair judgements.

          • velma@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            13
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            18 hours ago

            Or maybe his reaction is, still not pardonable, but more understandable with the context?

            There isn’t acceptable context for how he kicked her while she was on the ground nor for hitting her at the end.

                • deft@lemmy.wtfBanned
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  7 hours ago

                  Look how non aggressive he is. He definitely didn’t stand up and b-line to kick her while she’s down

                  • DrunkenDuckling@lemmus.org
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    6 hours ago

                    Listen man, if you want to deny her aggression that preceded all this that’s fine, but don’t act like you’re standing up for women while doing so.

                    You’re denying basic agency to women, you misogynist.

                    Never developed past the first-wave of feminism?

                  • DrunkenDuckling@lemmus.org
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    7 hours ago

                    Now screenshot her invading his space literally 1 second before this.

                    Throwing a drink in someones face is harmless, threatening someone with a bottle is not.

            • HasturInYellow@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              9
              ·
              14 hours ago

              Ok but like maybe she literally killed his dog.

              That’s why context is important.

              He’s probably a shithead though.

            • Peacepath@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              17 hours ago

              And there is not a fair judgement without understanding of the context.

              I may illustrate with two different possible contexts, most likely none apply here, the point is to show you that your judgement may not be the exact same:

              A: They are from the same family and she comes-out to him as a lesbian, and that her actual partner she plans to marry has an other ethnical origine. The anger and violence of the guy is their based on homophobia and racism which adds to the physical aspect.

              B: He was a soldier in some military conflict and has traumas. Some flashbacks make him violent. He would need meds but can’t afford them anymore due to life cost rising. In this scenario, the violence is not even related to his victime.

              • velma@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                17 hours ago

                You don’t need to invent scenarios to justify his actions here. There is plenty of evidence on the video to know that he is in the wrong.

                • Peacepath@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  16 hours ago

                  If you take the scenario A as a justification, we clearly don’t have the same idea of justice.

                  • NEZ27@lemmy.zip
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    4 hours ago

                    Why stop at two fake scenarios? If anything can happen why’d you plop those two out?

            • Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              9
              ·
              17 hours ago

              Not siding with him, it seems likely he was in the wrong. But regarding your comment. Hypothetically, let’s say he is the recipient of constant abuse. Both verbal and physical, and this was him finally snapping and giving it back. Let’s say he has been on the receiving end of his fair share of kicks whilst down. Let’s say he previously never wanted to fight back because he isn’t violent.

              I am not saying that is what happened. But i am saying you cant say “there isn’t acceptable context” when it took me 5 seconds to think of some.

              • velma@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                17 hours ago

                He is still responsible for his actions. Previous abuse does not excuse assaulting this woman multiple times in this scenario.

                Why are you playing devil’s advocate for this man?

                • Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  5
                  ·
                  8 hours ago

                  Sorry, i wasn’t clear enough.

                  As far as we can tell this man is at fault. He has assaulted this woman.

                  I was only pointing out that your blanket statement that there is no context in which this is justified is incorrect. And frankly the attitude is dangerous. Is there any context where the woman can pick up a glass bottle to use as a weapon? Considering the level of harm a glass bottle would cause? Perhaps the justification is she is being attacked by a man that is apparently much stronger than she is? Does that justify it? Or does it only work one way?

                  Again. I agree. Given all available evidence, it seems this man has unjustly assaulted this woman. But your attitude towards this is just basic.

          • deft@lemmy.wtfBanned
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            19 hours ago

            Why is it my favorite side? I don’t know these people don’t put anything on me.

            Context will only clear up one thing, why did she put her hand on the glass and if you could argue it was simple battery. Which would be unlikely because most judges find frivolous charges like that unnecessary without some kind of history of actions or whatever. Putting your hand on someone’s glass in an isolated situation is not simple battery.

            On the flip side responding with violence because a hand was put on your glass is likely assault. Escalation, specific intent to harm and multiple violent interactions require zero context. We don’t need to know anything for that.

            If he was afraid for his life his body language and the rest of his actions didn’t support that. She never prevented him from leaving.

            If you think in any situation his reaction is understandable you’re being completely stupid, there’s no reason to put your hands on someone like this in this situation.

            • Peacepath@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              19 hours ago

              So I am being completly stupid, I am fine with it.

              But while I do not understand what happend, I don’t pretend I do.

              What is she telling him? I have no idea, and that could (or not) be part of the explaination.

              His reaction looks like anger. It may not be. But it looks like it. Yet what causes this anger? Is it understandable to be angry in such cases?

              Anger should not allow us to be violent, and he is wrong to beat her. One this I totally agree. But no, I can’t judge the cases.

              • deft@lemmy.wtfBanned
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                19 hours ago

                Yes you absolutely can. He assaulted her. Anyone in this thread leaning away from that is defending this situation and looking for justification for his actions.

                It’s assault. It’s fucking gross.

                • Peacepath@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  18 hours ago

                  Once more, the context, the full story, may not make things better for him.

                  He may deserve a stricter punishment than you would be willing to give him without the context.

                  Understanding is not defending him. It is defending the research of a fair judgement.

                  I especially invite you to think about the fact he could be reacting judgementaly to that she says, without taking the time to understand fully. As you are reacting now. And that it would be very wrong of him.

                  • deft@lemmy.wtfBanned
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    6
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    18 hours ago

                    My point is context isn’t necessary to know he’s so far beyond being in the wrong and the degree people wanna defend him in these comments over “cOnTExt” is a fucking laugh.

                    Context isn’t necessary in this situation it would only offer insight into what a piece of shit he is, not deciding if he is a piece of shit. So anyone asking for context before making their judgement is, for lack of better words and to make the point very clear, a fucking moron.

          • Tiral@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            10
            ·
            19 hours ago

            Thank you. I get tired of people being white knights and such. It might be the way it looks, it might not be. Without context anyone is just guessing.

            • velma@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              18 hours ago

              Without context anyone is just guessing.

              There is no justification here for how he assaulted her. It’s not white knighting to know that he is in the wrong.

            • deft@lemmy.wtfBanned
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              19 hours ago

              The only action that needs context is touching the bottle. None of his actions could be justified no matter what.

              Context is she was breaking up with him. Add or remove that, the situation is outlandishly disgusting behavior and you’re literally trying to justify it. Doing anything but calling it what it is, misogynistic and assault is justifying it.

              Notice the whole crowd defending his actions are also trying to claim it isn’t misogynistic? Interesting.

              • Maeve@kbin.earth
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                12 hours ago

                It certainly is, and this is why I’ve been volcel for four years.