As religion has declined, the vast majority of people who used to go to church weekly haven’t replaced that by attending other community groups. And the “interest” part also fundamentally changes the nature of it. People going to church were often going there out of a sense of obligation. Parents don’t drag their kids to the comic shop and make them hang out with people.
As religion has declined, the vast majority of people who used to go to church weekly haven’t replaced that by attending other community groups.
religion != going to christian a church or temple
even practicing christians can have their own way of practicing
non-religious people and secular social gatherings are much older than christian churches, and far more than any US church
how can can you even claim “the vast majority of people who used to go to church weekly haven’t replaced that by attending other community groups” ?
And the “interest” part also fundamentally changes the nature of it.
Yes, but what’s your point?
People going to church were often going there out of a sense of obligation.
I don’t know enough about the sociology behind this.
However, this sense of obligation can also apply to gatherings not related to any christian church. Peer pressure and other social norms are not reserved to religious groups from the christian family of religions, nor to any religious or ideological group.
Parents don’t drag their kids to the comic shop and make them hang out with people.
Are you sure? I agree that not usual regarding a comic shop specically, but it still can happen. If not parents, other family members or friends can force someone into the forceful one’s favourite gathering evenet/place. The place can be a comic shop. I actually have been pressured by someone to participate to a very private cultural club regrouping a fraction of the community I talked about. That “someone” was a member of the club, but didn’t even ask other members consent before shoehorning me in. The club session didn’t take place in the shop, but in some members’ homes. Most accepted me, but still… others and I were forced to interact in this situations, and the only thing that helped is that we already interacted spontaneously and positively at several previous encounters.
Parents do indeed drag their kids to non religious social hubs and make them hang out with people :
family events
village / town events
events with friends or colleagues
public or private ceremonies (marriages, veteran ceremonies, etc)
public events (fireworks, ball, promotional events, anything really)
sports, cultural, or other clubs, even when none of the parents is a member of the club
rallyes (the aristocrat networking event, not the vehicle race.)
Friends or relatives from the same generation can also do the same, to the same kind of hubs, plus others like nightclubs and their afterwork equivalent (that matches “events with friends or colleagues”, but the noise and the mass of people adds much stress for some.)
I’ve personnally experienced most of that when I was a child / teen, and still experience part of it. And although I was a roman catholic as a child, the only times this forced socialisation happened linked to church activities were linked to marriages, communions, baptism or funeral. I never took part in catechism, nor in periodic masses, or any parish event. That didn’t prevent me from finding a community. Actually, social norms and obligations were and still are one of the biggests obstacles preventing me from participating in significant way in a community. The others are social fears/anxiety, and poor mental health. (Due to working and living conditions degradation, as well as to the socio-ecological context, and the economics and politics that cause all of this. I hate the greed for any kind of domination, and the oppression and exploitation this greed encourages.)
Anyway, I don’t understand your point about the “obligation” incentive, and the forced participation. It wasn’t part of the discussions when I first answered, so it’s not a point I discussed either.
Communities and social interactions, wether linked to any religion or not, can and will happen without external constraints.
The absence of pressure is even better. Forced social interactions are at best awkward and tiring. I usually find these abusives. They also implies power dynamics that will probably lead to further suffering, toxicity, or (potentially very serious) abuses. We should not encourage the use of religion as a domination system (or any such system really) to force and structure social interactions and community.
That forced social obligation angle is an important if weird part of how churches benefit society in non-religious ways. People who only ever do what they want when they want end up in isolation bubbles.
As attendance at churches has plummeted while the remaining churches have politicized, people have replaced those communities on social media, which have algorithmically placed them in echo chambers.
And occasionally hanging out with friends is not participating in a third place like a church. They no longer regularly socialize with hundreds of community members they otherwise would never speak with. And that is a loss. It’s one reason people are increasingly lonely.
Inknow people who are stuck in dead-end careers and hate their lives whonreally should just move somewhere else, but they’re afraid to because they have like 5 people in the world they’re close to, and literally don’t knkw how they’d find a new socialmgroup if they moved across the country. The answer to that used to be to move to a new area, start attending church, and meet people.
But the thing is they dont.
As religion has declined, the vast majority of people who used to go to church weekly haven’t replaced that by attending other community groups. And the “interest” part also fundamentally changes the nature of it. People going to church were often going there out of a sense of obligation. Parents don’t drag their kids to the comic shop and make them hang out with people.
Wall of text incoming.
What make claim this general statement ?
Yes, but what’s your point?
I don’t know enough about the sociology behind this. However, this sense of obligation can also apply to gatherings not related to any christian church. Peer pressure and other social norms are not reserved to religious groups from the christian family of religions, nor to any religious or ideological group.
Are you sure? I agree that not usual regarding a comic shop specically, but it still can happen. If not parents, other family members or friends can force someone into the forceful one’s favourite gathering evenet/place. The place can be a comic shop. I actually have been pressured by someone to participate to a very private cultural club regrouping a fraction of the community I talked about. That “someone” was a member of the club, but didn’t even ask other members consent before shoehorning me in. The club session didn’t take place in the shop, but in some members’ homes. Most accepted me, but still… others and I were forced to interact in this situations, and the only thing that helped is that we already interacted spontaneously and positively at several previous encounters.
Parents do indeed drag their kids to non religious social hubs and make them hang out with people :
Friends or relatives from the same generation can also do the same, to the same kind of hubs, plus others like nightclubs and their afterwork equivalent (that matches “events with friends or colleagues”, but the noise and the mass of people adds much stress for some.)
I’ve personnally experienced most of that when I was a child / teen, and still experience part of it. And although I was a roman catholic as a child, the only times this forced socialisation happened linked to church activities were linked to marriages, communions, baptism or funeral. I never took part in catechism, nor in periodic masses, or any parish event. That didn’t prevent me from finding a community. Actually, social norms and obligations were and still are one of the biggests obstacles preventing me from participating in significant way in a community. The others are social fears/anxiety, and poor mental health. (Due to working and living conditions degradation, as well as to the socio-ecological context, and the economics and politics that cause all of this. I hate the greed for any kind of domination, and the oppression and exploitation this greed encourages.)
Anyway, I don’t understand your point about the “obligation” incentive, and the forced participation. It wasn’t part of the discussions when I first answered, so it’s not a point I discussed either.
Communities and social interactions, wether linked to any religion or not, can and will happen without external constraints.
The absence of pressure is even better. Forced social interactions are at best awkward and tiring. I usually find these abusives. They also implies power dynamics that will probably lead to further suffering, toxicity, or (potentially very serious) abuses. We should not encourage the use of religion as a domination system (or any such system really) to force and structure social interactions and community.
That forced social obligation angle is an important if weird part of how churches benefit society in non-religious ways. People who only ever do what they want when they want end up in isolation bubbles.
As attendance at churches has plummeted while the remaining churches have politicized, people have replaced those communities on social media, which have algorithmically placed them in echo chambers.
And occasionally hanging out with friends is not participating in a third place like a church. They no longer regularly socialize with hundreds of community members they otherwise would never speak with. And that is a loss. It’s one reason people are increasingly lonely.
Inknow people who are stuck in dead-end careers and hate their lives whonreally should just move somewhere else, but they’re afraid to because they have like 5 people in the world they’re close to, and literally don’t knkw how they’d find a new socialmgroup if they moved across the country. The answer to that used to be to move to a new area, start attending church, and meet people.