The closest direct source I found suggests that there is a negative correlation between system-justifying beliefs and collective anti-system action. If people believe voting legitimately is a means by which they can enact social change, they are less likely to organize against the system itself. This does not mean voting itself is against organizing, in fact organizers vote at higher rates than non-organizers. The importance here is that collective action is diminished when that is directed towards engaging with the system itself.
I feel like it would be more effective to highlight political movements that required changing the status quo of the political landscape all involved more than just voting. Like lgbt rights starting by throwing a brick at a cop or women’s suffrage obvious not coming from women all showing up to the polls to vote for their right to vote.
Basically take a look at any history book and the case is clearly made that effective political change never came from voting alone.
That’s what I found more convincing personally, but agent_nycto wanted, specifically, a study for a very specific claim, so that’s what I had to work with. I definitely agree that historical study of how political change happens is more effective!
Even reading through the abstract, this study is irrelevant to what we’re talking about here. They did a study that showed how people who are against the system and protest the system will inevitably butt heads with people who want to keep the system, the status quo.
Nowhere is it talking about voting, and that voting causes people to stop organizing.
The fact you said you “found” it instead of having that information on hand, and that you had to stretch to say this proves your theory means what I thought from the start.
The whole “people who vote will organize less” theory you state as absolute, the whole basis of your criticism, is made up. You assumed that this was true instead of checking. Shameful.
The study directly shows a negative correlation between those who believe the system represents a valid path to change, and those who organize against the system. This is my point. I did not say “people who vote will organize less,” I said funelling people into electoralism and treating it as the primary means of change deflates revolutionary organizing. These are distinct and separate points, and since you cannot argue against my actual point, you make up strawmen.
When voting is treated like the absolutely most important means of political struggle, people do tune out and neglect to organize.
You appear to be interpreting it as if he had said:
When voting exists, people do tune out and neglect to organize.
From what I can tell, his argument was never that the very existence of voting causes political apathy in voters, as you seem to be implying. Rather, he is arguing that the promotion of voting as either the primary or as the only valid form of political action causes voters to disregard other forms.
The closest direct source I found suggests that there is a negative correlation between system-justifying beliefs and collective anti-system action. If people believe voting legitimately is a means by which they can enact social change, they are less likely to organize against the system itself. This does not mean voting itself is against organizing, in fact organizers vote at higher rates than non-organizers. The importance here is that collective action is diminished when that is directed towards engaging with the system itself.
I feel like it would be more effective to highlight political movements that required changing the status quo of the political landscape all involved more than just voting. Like lgbt rights starting by throwing a brick at a cop or women’s suffrage obvious not coming from women all showing up to the polls to vote for their right to vote.
Basically take a look at any history book and the case is clearly made that effective political change never came from voting alone.
That’s what I found more convincing personally, but agent_nycto wanted, specifically, a study for a very specific claim, so that’s what I had to work with. I definitely agree that historical study of how political change happens is more effective!
Even reading through the abstract, this study is irrelevant to what we’re talking about here. They did a study that showed how people who are against the system and protest the system will inevitably butt heads with people who want to keep the system, the status quo.
Nowhere is it talking about voting, and that voting causes people to stop organizing.
The fact you said you “found” it instead of having that information on hand, and that you had to stretch to say this proves your theory means what I thought from the start.
The whole “people who vote will organize less” theory you state as absolute, the whole basis of your criticism, is made up. You assumed that this was true instead of checking. Shameful.
The study directly shows a negative correlation between those who believe the system represents a valid path to change, and those who organize against the system. This is my point. I did not say “people who vote will organize less,” I said funelling people into electoralism and treating it as the primary means of change deflates revolutionary organizing. These are distinct and separate points, and since you cannot argue against my actual point, you make up strawmen.
You said it right there.
Yep! I never said voting causes apathy, I pointed to the way people treat voting as a cause of apathy towards organizing. Critical distinction!
Which you failed to prove regardless. Your argument is based on nothing
I gave evidence, you pretended the evidence didn’t support my point because you continued to pretend my point was a different one entirely.
I deadass quoted you and now you’re moving the goalposts. “I didn’t saaaaay voting was bad and pointless ;)” doesn’t cut it.
His original comment reads: (bold emphasis mine)
You appear to be interpreting it as if he had said:
From what I can tell, his argument was never that the very existence of voting causes political apathy in voters, as you seem to be implying. Rather, he is arguing that the promotion of voting as either the primary or as the only valid form of political action causes voters to disregard other forms.
Cowbee’s arms must be massive the way he’s running all over the fuckin place with those goal posts.
I never moved the goalposts, you argued against a point I never made. I tried to bring you back to the goalposts.