https://sfba.social/@drahardja/117344931893000589
the other day a tanky said a sentence constructed like that to me too, while literally arguing for me to join his authoritarian group
https://sfba.social/@drahardja/117344931893000589
the other day a tanky said a sentence constructed like that to me too, while literally arguing for me to join his authoritarian group
I.e. eating less meat does not affect animal welfare, zoonosis and land use change?
nope
Are you an imbecile or a troll?
Troll, it appears. But. Maybe both.
calling me names won’t change the facts
Yeah. We can call you names, and it won’t change the fact that eating less meat does affect animal welfare, zoonosis and land use change.
Or do you have some actual argument to make?
meat production continues to rise, and there is no reason to believe it could rise any faster. systemic change needs to happen.
“There is no reason to believe it could rise any faster” is a belief that doesn’t really feel founded on anything. And you seem to build a lot atop that belief.
If people were eating more meat, more meat would be produced.
that is already happening
You’re doing literally precisely what this post is criticizing.
Yes. And that needs to happen less. That’s the problem we are talking about.
The growth of total meat production is not indicative of the change in harm done by developed countries. It can only be combated by increasing poverty, decreasing population or imposing laws onto developing countries. Most people would be unwilling to impose that.
Quoting rising meat consumption as an example of how vegans are wrong is… Non factual. Naming those that do consume animal (products) in smaller amounts just as bad as those habitual carcass consumption clowns isn’t conducive to the goal of reducing meat consumption either.
vegans aren’t wrong to be vegan. but it would be wrong to say being vegan causes systemic change. which I thought was the point I made to begin with, and to an extent, the point of this post
Nothing you do as an individual for yourself causes systemic change. Being social and causing your peers to change their behavior is effective. But in the end there are hundreds of people in the world and you are just one of them.
Persistent, effective influencing is what does the most. You could also do a little terrorism, I guess. But that causes further divide and harm.
I dunno, I’ve seen society go from “vegans might get some fries but will likely go hungry from a restaurant” to “every restaurant except one has at least one vegan option permanently on menu”. During this time stores and restaurants have stopped supplying eggs from cages birds, and fur farms has shut down across the country, and schools has started serving meat-free Mondays, multiple types of meat alteratives can be found in every corner store rather than specialist shops, the EU has banned animal testing for cosmetics, pet abandonment has become criminalised, etc…
None of those things would have happened if people weren’t going vegan, asking for vegan options at restaurants and stores, and pushing for vegan ideals at stores, restaurants, local councils and government.
The meat and dairy lobby is massive, intense and wealthy. I understand that it may seem impossible to work against such an opponent. But the force enacted by each individual going vegan is what has made these changes seem worth it to all the above institutions, in the face of such massive industries, and that makes each individuals force incredible.
Systemic changes are slow, but when you see them across decades they are undeniable.
The point of this post was that comments like yours itt want to discourage positive change by naysaying, and that it’s shitty and wrong. Not really sure how you twisted that into “vegans aren’t doing anything”.
Where “the facts” is just a baseless claim that since things look bad, they couldn’t be worse, therefore vegans have never made any impact whatsoever. 🤮
counterfactuals can’t be proven. that’s the only fact that matters when the actually baseless claim that it would be worse without a few people buying beans is raised.
If it was only a few people you wouldn’t be getting so annoyed about them existing.
The real reason everyone hates vegans is that, deep down, we all know they’re right.
I don’t hate vegans and I’m not annoyed at them existing. you are reading something I haven’t written
I don’t believe you.
I don’t know if you just found out about a new word or what but that means specifically “untruth” which isn’t something you’ve proven at all. You pretend that a graph showing meat production increasing proves that vegans haven’t changed anything and that’s about as far from proof as one can get. My term for that claim is “bullshit”.
You came to this post highlighting people being shitty about social movements and you saw it as a great opportunity to be shitty about a specific social movement.
if you had to look up counterfactuals, you probably aren’t qualified to discuss this right now.
Ah I see, if I check my understanding of a word to confirm if I’m right, I shouldn’t talk to you. Yeah that does check out actually lol. You didn’t address the fact that you are overusing the word (and incorrectly) and have zero evidence for anything you’re claiming at all. Stay ignorant, troll.