I replied to someone saying that the USSR defeated the Nazis saying that it was a group effort. Got into an argument and called a Nazi repeatedly because “I was mad that the USSR defeated the Nazis and hated them for it” which is ridiculous. This isn’t the first time that’s happened on Lemmy. What’s up with that?
the 27 million includes approximately 16-19 million civilians who were systematically exterminated or died under occupation.
blaming soviet military strategies for those deaths is historically illiterate. the nazi invasion was explicitly genocidal in intent, those civilians weren’t casualties of soviet tactics.
Okay? That still doesn’t mean that the Soviets won the war singlehandedly, which is the argument that was being made. Around 11 million Soviet soldiers and sailors were lost. The only excuse for that is strategy. Losing 11 million to 4 million is , frankly, awful and the only reason they didn’t lose completely was that they had the numbers.
soviet POWs were systematically murdered rather than held as prisoners. this was a war of extermination and qualitatively different from every other theater. very different from conventional warfare, a significant portion (on the order of 3+ million) of those ‘military’ deaths were just starving or working prisoners to death.
And that’s fucking awful, it still doesn’t mean that the Soviets, and only the Soviets won the war.
and that’s not what was said, that was your spin for the pity thread
“the US didn’t win the war, the Soviets did”
You’ve quoted that to me twice as if I responded that the US won the war, which I never did. I said it was a group effort because it was. You seem to think it was only a European war and not a world war. Do we need to break down the Pacific theater now and break down the contributions there? Or can you accept the fact that the World War was a group effort?
it was a group effort, but the US didn’t win it; the soviets did.
A statement completely negated by
Also, I never said or even implied that the US “won the war” because anyone with half a brain knows that the allies (USSR included) won the war.
Lend lease was fuck all. The CIA admitted the Soviets would have beaten Germany without it, albeit, slower.
as i said elsewhere, it’s only contradictory if you assume “group effort” means equal contribution, which is the whole point being contested.
it’s also why you got shouted down for trying to uplift the US’s participation beyond what it actually was.
the person you replied to said:
the original claim was not that the soviets won single-handedly. they were responsible for taking on 70-80% of the german war effort.
Too bad the axis was made up of more than Germany.
even accounting for all axis partners, the eastern front absorbed the vast majority of axis military capacity throughout the war.
the original claim was not that the soviets won single-handedly, from what i can tell it was that the US did not.
“The US didn’t win the war, the Soviets did”. You’ve quoted it to me twice now.
it was a group effort, but the US didn’t win it; the soviets did.
A statement which contradicts itself.
it’s only contradictory if you assume “group effort” means equal contribution…
which is the whole point being contested.