• minorsecond@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Why does it seem like there are a ton more conservatives here on Lemmy than there were on Reddit?

          • minorsecond@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I don’t know how I feel about it. On one hand, it makes for less of an echo chamber. On the other hand, their thoughts are fucking stupid and it hurts my brain to see them.

            • Pons_Aelius@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              They have the right to be here and express their thoughts.

              What they don’t have is a right to our attention.

              Ignore them and block accounts that get annoying.

          • minorsecond@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I mean, I think they’re definitely still in the minority. It seems like there’s a larger proportion of them here than on reddit. I see more of their opinions here. Maybe that’s just how the algo works here regarding upvotes & downvotes and how comments are displayed.

            • AngrilyEatingMuffins@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              It’s worst on lemmy.world I’ve noticed. Beehaw was right to defederate. Y’all need to tell them in the kindest possible words to go die over and over again until they don’t come back or you’ll end up like voat.

        • Bleeping Lobster@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Happy to have them here. I almost never agree with them, but not only is it good to have your opinion challenged (though often wearying to have to repeat yourself), it’s good for THEM to have their opinion challenged too. Maybe only 1/100 will change their opinion after being challenged and seeing that their opinion is very much in the minority, but that’s 1/100 more than if we were all chatting away in a safe space with no opposing views.

          (and to be clear, no I don’t think shit like nazis, devout racists etc is an ‘opposing view’ that deserves any debate)

        • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          For every person that choose to leave reddit…

          There’s 5-10 “conservatives” who were ip banned and dont have a choice between Reddit and Lemmy.

        • ShakyPerception@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          They are not getting down-voted into nothingness for refusing to tow the party line.

          I appreciate the variety of opinions presented here. Plus (in my experience) the conversation has been civil.

          • Refurbished Refurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org
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            1 year ago

            Yeah. I hardcore disagree with conservatives as a libertarian socialist myself, but I always want to hear what people who disagree with me (and people who agree with me) are saying, and engage in civil conversation with people who actually believe what they say.

            The problem for me comes when shills (people who don’t believe what they say but get paid to say it) come into the conversation, or when people use outright disingenuous arguments (usually strawmans).

              • Refurbished Refurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org
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                1 year ago

                You very well may be correct, but I always like to assume people are good and are arguing in good faith until proven otherwise.

                If I can “steelman” (opposite of strawman) their position, and argue against it easilly, I see no reason not to do so, and that also makes for a better argument for other people viewing the comment thread who may believe the false notion that climate change is either fake or not caused by humans.

                To me, trying to argue that climate change is fake or not caused by humans is the same as trying to argue that the Earth is flat. Very easy to debunk.

                • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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                  1 year ago

                  That is a recipe for wasting a huge amount of time in people whose main goal is to waste your time.

              • Refurbished Refurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org
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                1 year ago

                If they actually believe it, I would like to argue the factual point, which is very easy to do. If they don’t believe what they are saying, then yes, I have a problem with it.

                There is plenty of evidence pointing to the fact that climate change is real and that it is caused by humans. If they choose to not listen to evidence and hard facts, then they lost the debate. If they say that big money funded those studies, simply point them to the Big Oil-funded studies claiming that climate change is false, and the fact that they originally found that it was true, and then tried to bury it.

          • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            Man I am kinda sorry, that I invade your worldview.

            But rich people don’t have all their money stored in a vault like Dagobert Duck. It’s all stocks.

            And boy, if one of the companies make losses, then their money goes downhill. It’s volatile.

            And due to immense concurrence in innovation in the tech sector, every investor has a huge interest in innovation.

            And with many investment, the start of a company is ensured.

            The current capitalism is the system that works best.

            Especially the US capitalism is one hell of a driver in innovation. I live in Germany and many companies wouldn’t be possible here. Even though we have capitalism, it’s much softer than its US counterpart.

            The downside of course is poverty for cheaper labour.

            And that’s brutal, but it’s the reality we live in.

            Though I wouldn’t want to live in the US without healthcare, on the counter side I wouldn’t want to start a company here in Europe.

            • AngrilyEatingMuffins@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              UserDoesNotExist, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this website is now dumber for having read it. I award you one downvote, and may God have mercy on your soul.

                • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  My dude, your argument boils down to “this is the way we’ve always done it so this is the way it must be”.

                  Have you considered the possibility that if innovation were to slow, and companies DIDN’T insist on quarter-after-quarter growth, the world might just continue to turn? That while the richest individuals may be slightly less rich, the vast majority of people would continue their lives with no negative consequences?

                  • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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                    1 year ago

                    My dude, your argument boils down to “this is the way we’ve always done it so this is the way it must be”.

                    But we haven’t done this always. As humans we have tried different attempts. Socialism, communism, monarchy, feudalism, democracy, capitalism, social capitalism, anarchism,…

                    And here we are now. After all those experiments.

                    Have you considered the possibility that if innovation were to slow, and companies DIDN’T insist on quarter-after-quarter growth, the world might just continue to turn?

                    But we humans are not made to chill. We need to advance as fast as possible. My parents and their generation did so. We now have AI becoming increasingly popular. And sooner or later I will hopefully have children. So I have to do my part, that the lives my kin will be better than mine. Better medical tech, better education, better transport, better tech,… Of course the world would continue to turn.

                    That while the richest individuals may be slightly less rich, the vast majority of people would continue their lives with no negative consequences?

                    I don’t understand why you always believe that if the rich were less rich, that anything would change. It would not.

                • Decoy321@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Do you not understand the system at live in is actively dooming us all? Why are you so vehemently defending it? Especially when you can acknowledge that other systems can exist?

                  Why would you think that companies going bankrupt is somehow worse than people being increasingly unable to live.

                  • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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                    1 year ago

                    Do you not understand the system at live in is actively dooming us all?

                    I don’t think that it is dooming us. I cannot imagine a system that would lead to more freedom, better education or innovation.

                    Why are you so vehemently defending it? Especially when you can acknowledge that other systems can exist?

                    Even though I acknowledge that other systems have been tried in the past, I also believe that all of them, except capitalism with a few social tweaks, have failed.

                    Why would you think that companies going bankrupt is somehow worse than people being increasingly unable to live.

                    Because tons of lives are also depending on the company to keep on running. Making some people’s lives worse will probably not fix the problems of others. Instead the people that are in need of betterment must get a tailored solution. Tailored towards them without the need to completely overhaul a working system.

                  • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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                    1 year ago

                    I might lighten you up a bit.

                    The methods to combat climate change are already there. We already have the means for weather engineering.

                    The future is inevitable. And so is every step towards it.

                  • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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                    1 year ago

                    I have no motive other than my own profit. And I do not profit from a conversation here, other than to quench my thirst for discussion.

                    So please refrain from accusing me of propaganda.

            • Void_Reader@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              btw they do store a lot of their money in vaults where it doesnt benefit the economy at all.

              This is in the form of expensive art that stays in containers in tax-free zones, and offshore accounts in tax havens.

              Please educate yourself.

              https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/how-wealthy-sell-treasures-tax-free

              https://www.icij.org/inside-icij/2017/09/7-charts-show-how-rich-hide-their-cash

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers

              https://academic.oup.com/ser/article/20/2/539/6500315

                • Void_Reader@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Did you read any of those links? 10% of world GDP. That’s not relatively little. That’s insane.

                  And stocks doesn’t automatically mean good. How much of that is speculative bubbles and hype-driven overvalued stocks?

                  • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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                    1 year ago

                    Did you read any of those links? 10% of world GDP. That’s not relatively little. That’s insane.

                    I have only overflown the Oxford paper. Caught my attention with the affect of increasing taxing the rich. Interesting take, but purely theoretical with no reasonable adaption possibility. The rich would just leave the country and some other country would profit from their taxes.

                    And stocks doesn’t automatically mean good. How much of that is speculative bubbles and hype-driven overvalued stocks?

                    If you believe to know which ones are overvalued, then you should try to go buy short positions in them. Maybe you become rich then?

                    Jokes aside. The stock market is relatively precise, it also projects potential into the future. Due to that many stocks to combat climate change have risen in popularity and a lot of money has been brought to said companies by purely capitalistic driven motives.

              • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                No it’s not. It has already been studied, that with an inflation rate of roughly 2 percent, that people are more willing to spend.

                And currently we exceed this by far. And people do spend their money in an attempt to get the most out of it.

                So wealth hoarding is currently no problem. And in a well managed economical state, it as well becomes no problem.

        • beardedrhino@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          Holy shit please tell me this person is just trolling us. I refuse to believe this is a real take

          • FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Anytime someone points to the Saudis as an example to follow…probably don’t need to listen to anything else they say.

          • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            I am no troll. I believe that I see the world as it is. I guess so do you.

            Doesn’t matter much though. No matter what we do. We will see who is right. Luckily time passes all by itself. For now.

              • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                I take offence in being called a troll. It’s insulting. You can’t just call someone a troll with a different opinion and claim that this invalidates my argument.

            • prole@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              But we’ve already seen who’s right. Most innovation comes from public universities and institutes.

              • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                This is simply wrong. Basic research comes from universities and institutes.

                But most research, Including research with application potential, comes from the privat sector. This includes the Pharma industry, the medical industry, the chemical industry, semi conductor industry and informatics.

                It is mainly driven by big companies. In constant need to outperform their competition, or not to fall behind in research and innovation.

                • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  Quickly testing if I go banned because some of my comments were deleted.

                  Edit: nope. Not banned.

                  (☞゚ヮ゚)☞ This is a community of well mannered people and good conversations.

        • zefiax@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          This is a good example of the worst kind of pseudo intellectual bs that tricks the uninformed. It’s confidently wrong in so many different areas that I don’t even know where to start.

          • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            I don’t think you have been reading a single one of the articles. The first one already is a not so fitting response to m claim that European style houses are ore resilient against extreme weather events.

            • Void_Reader@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              The first one is about how wet bulb temperatures and extreme heat work. The second one is about Europe. Whether or not they are ‘more’ resilient doesn’t matter.

              Also I don’t think you know what Europe is. Scandinavian, Central European and British houses are mostly made to keep heat in during cold winters. They’re not good for heatwaves.

              Mediterranean style housing is definitely better for heat. But that doesn’t stop Italy, Spain, and France from having deadly heatwaves.

              • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                The first one is about how wet bulb temperatures and extreme heat work. The second one is about Europe. Whether or not they are ‘more’ resilient doesn’t matter.

                Yes it does matter. European housing is well insulated. And definitely sturdier than US housing.

                Also I don’t think you know what Europe is.

                Yea, my bad. As a German I obviously have no idea what Europe is.

                Scandinavian, Central European and British houses are mostly made to keep heat in during cold winters. They’re not good for heatwaves.

                This is wrong. Insulation goes both ways. In summer it helps keeping the cooler night temperatures inside.

                Mediterranean style housing is definitely better for heat. But that doesn’t stop Italy, Spain, and France from having deadly heatwaves.

                Mediterranean housing is not especially good against heat. Wrong assumption. Swedes, Germans and the French are doing a much better job than the mediterranes.

                • Void_Reader@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Won’t dispute that European housing is sturdier. And yes insulation works both ways - however, you need good ventilation. And shading etc. AFAIK insulation optimised for heat retention is different to that optimised for keeping cool.

                  If you have a study or something that compares Mediterranean vs other European house designs, please send it to me and I’ll change my mind if I’m wrong.

                  As a German you should know that heatwaves have killed thousands of people in Germany as well.

                  Swedes, Germans, and French are also wealthier and have less extreme heat to deal with than Italy, Spain or Greece. You can’t attribute that to house design. Again, if you have a study comparing these, send it to me and prove me wrong.

                  • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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                    1 year ago

                    My comparison on housing insulation is purely based on my experience. Italien housing is not much insulated. Insulation is usually driven by the need to reduce cost when heating in winter. That’s a problem Italiens face not so much. Therefor in comparison to Northern Europe, Italien housing is far less insulated. And because insulation goes both ways, I came to the conclusion that Northern European housing is better suited for warm summers.

          • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            A similar flood happened in 1804 in the same region. Exactly the same region.

            The houses were placed in a strategically bad position.

            And many had no cellars ( to reinforce the houses in the ground).

          • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            English is not my primary language. I believe it was explosion motor what you have written at first.

            And while I am no expert of the workings of a modern combustion engine, I do indeed have an understanding of how a combustion engine works.

            I also know what reaction takes place and I know the average fuel consumption of an average European car.

            • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I also know what reaction takes place

              If it’s not an explosion, what is it?

              Because literally any other answer that’s not a synonym for explosion is wrong…

      • very smart Idiot@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        I give you that. Just a few were directly involved in innovation.

        But the rich do quite successfully create the framework conditions for innovation and development. Mostly driven by profit, but a world based purely on goodwill fails at the first doubter, the first who does not want to participate. So capitalism is what we got. And so far it has proven to be more resilient than other systems.