This isn’t a capitalism problem. It’s an authoritarianism problem. The only thing about this that relates to capitalism is that it’s a private company setting up the cameras instead of the state doing it.
That’s a gross over simplification that ignores the influence of the insurance industry shifting the baseline of public surveillance and crony capitalism that infects our municipalities.
“Decentralize the mass surveillance!” cries the anarcho-libertarian. “Big Government is monopolizing all the cameras! We should let the market decide who gets spied on!”
This is absolutely a capitalism problem. It’s what happens when you let corporations do whatever without consequences as long as they can afford the bribes and in turn get contacts on taxpayer money.
True, but I could also see an authoritarian “communist” government doing all the same surveillance bullshit.
So, while it’s a capitalism problem this time, I don’t think it’s a capitalism-exclusive problem. It really is, at its root, an authoritarianism problem. This time, you’ve got capitalist authoritarianism, but next time maybe a different flavor.
I’ll tell you more, the UK is one of the leading countries in cameras per capita, either installed or accessible by the authorities (not sure about exact details). They built government surveillance without any communism in sight.
(Leaving alone that China’s state capitalism is the opposite of communism.)
You can’t get rid of authoritarianism the same way you can’t get rid of stupid. Some portion of the population will always be the bottom of the bell curve.
What you can do, however, is redirect it into something positive. For example, Japanese social structures are pretty fuckin’ authoritarian. Most people wouldn’t even dream of littering.
Authoritarianism means very little, it’s such a broad term that doesn’t localise the origin of repression. Instead of considering the root of the problem here, which is capitalism/private property, you look at a feature or a phenomenon.
I didn’t say anything about the authoritarian personality and I don’t really care that some people have figured out something they view as being integral to comprehending society. Honestly, I find life under the systems people like Fromm consider least authoritarian, think Sweden in the 70s, to still be be very brutal towards the masses.
But you know what, I believe your conclusion is also party correct. People with an “authoritarian” streak can be used to guard a worker’s movement.
Yes, necessarily so if we were to take the epithet that is “authoritarianism” seriously. We just don’t talk about what women in marriage have to put up with (the old adage of not biting the hand that feeds one), how we treat children and how accepted it is to subject people to dismal working conditions. It’s considered normal, this is the status quo. You need to enforce property laws with deadly force, suppress movements and the organic formation of opinions and views, in order to for the system to keep functioning as it has.
Just to recheck, you’re saying that Scandinavian countries are authoritarian?
Yes of course I am. I am Scandinavian. Have you ever travelled across the Öresund Bridge in a bus? They stop 50+ passengers for upwards of 45 minutes, pull out all the black and arab people seeking work, as well those who look particularly poor, subject them to highly invasive searches and then send some back if they feel like they can get away with it. Or take entering Gothenburg’s harbor by ferry. The send a military ship out to escort your boat. They don’t really have to do this, but they do it to really show you who is the boss/who has authority. When you arrive, something similar to the bus example happens. Take the all the black people into special rooms, make people walk past drug sniffing dogs (that have incredibly high rates of false positives, but that doesn’t matter because it’s about creating anxiety), and metal detectors. it’s not just designed to scare minorities, it’s also meant to incite fear in regular people.
Also, search SÄPO, they are so lacking in transparency that even Swedish government media can’t deny their lack of oversight and unbridled power.
And, you realize that some capitalist countries with private property and capitalist markets, in practice approach anarchy?
I do. Anarchy of production is the chief reason why climate change can’t be battled by capitalism. I am not an anarchist, I don’t know why you are bringing this up.
The problem of mass surveillance is coming from people who want control. The fact that they are capitalist this time is coincidental. It could just as easily be a theocratic government or an absolute monarchy that wants the level of control that mass surveillance can enable.
The same thing is happening/has already happened in China, the government there can find you and black bag you anywhere at any time. Ask Naomi Wu.
Russia basically is this already.
Europe is also trying to go there with the repeated attempts to pass chat control and age restrictions on internet access.
In the US, capitalism is the tool the authoritarians are using to accomplish their goals, and it is absolutely enabling the spread of the surveillance state. Capitalism itself is not the motivation for the surveillance state, it’s just being used by the authoritarians. If we’re going to put a stop to this kind of behavior, we have to get the targets right. Flock and the other companies like them are a symptom of the larger problem.
To my knowledge, Naomi Wu was never “black bagged”. She’s still selling stuff on cybernightmarket. She’s just done posting politics.
But to compare the grief Wu got (and, from what I read forever ago, it was as much other terminally online types screaming at her as any state intervention) with Leqaa Kordia or Mahmoud Khalil both of whom absolutely were “black bagged” in the literal sense? Wu was not indefinitely detained in a prison camp or threatened with torture unless she “voluntarily self-deported”, at least as far as I could find.
Russia basically is this already.
Russia is so much more, as they’ve weaponized their prison population into military conscripts.
Really not looking forward to the day I’m arrested by an ICE agent who is, himself, wearing a bomb collar.
Capitalism itself is not the motivation for the surveillance state
The surveillance state is a vital tool of private industry when executives fear a proletariat insurrection. It is a necessary precondition to prevent insurrection.
Russia is so much more, as they’ve weaponized their prison population into military conscripts.
It’s even more than that. Russia has weaponized their entire civilian population. It’s straight up nazi-level shit where you’re either Z or you’re a traitor. This is what American maga salivates about - complete and utter obedience through surveillance, legal and cultural bullying.
To my knowledge, Naomi Wu was never “black bagged”. She’s still selling stuff on cybernightmarket. She’s just done posting politics.
She disappeared from western social media, where she was very active before. Her latest post on twitter was chilling, I just hope she and her partner are ok.
Wu said. “- absolutely no one gives a shit. I could be dead in a ditch- but we aren’t actually people, we’re just signs for people like you in the West to wave at each other in their ideological war.”
You’re not going to win over undecided people by advocating for unreasonable, indiscriminate violence, you’re just going to give the opposition ammunition for calling you an extremist.
It would be far more productive to support groups like the EFF and ACLU in lobbying for legislation to prevent such abusive technology. Also get involved in your local town/county politics to advocate against the installation of such things. The absolute last thing the sick fuckers running companies like Flock want is for people to organize against them. Don’t push people away, encourage them to join.
Right… I’m the one being divisive, by saying that we should organize and work together. Hilarious.
systems that have already proven useless
The thing doing the most damage to Flock right now is the negative public opinion pushing counties and townships to cancel contracts. Those “useless” systems are actively responding to the demands of their citizens, and Flock cameras are being removed in many jurisdictions. The way you hurt a capitalist enterprise is to take away its money (loss of contracts).
So, how about you “pick a side” and join in with the effort that is actually producing results?
Stay informed about local meetings: ALPR.watch provides a calendar and map of upcoming public meetings with agenda items related to Flock and other surveillance systems. You can sign up for email alerts when meetings near you are scheduled.
Contact your local officials and demand transparency and oversight of surveillance programs. (See 5 Calls)
Support organizations like the ACLU and the EFF who challenge mass surveillance in the courts and legislatures.
Start conversations with neighbors and community groups about the risks of systems like Flock.
Share this website and make your community aware.
Capitalists are constantly telling on themselves.
This isn’t a capitalism problem. It’s an authoritarianism problem. The only thing about this that relates to capitalism is that it’s a private company setting up the cameras instead of the state doing it.
That’s a gross over simplification that ignores the influence of the insurance industry shifting the baseline of public surveillance and crony capitalism that infects our municipalities.
Capitalists have been trying to build the panopticon since the first factories.
Yes, that’s how it’s implemented under capitalism.
States further into their authoritarianism don’t need to bother with middle men and cutouts and shit.
They just put up the cameras.
Capitalism is pretty inherently authoritarian. The boss calls the shots.
“Decentralize the mass surveillance!” cries the anarcho-libertarian. “Big Government is monopolizing all the cameras! We should let the market decide who gets spied on!”
This is absolutely a capitalism problem. It’s what happens when you let corporations do whatever without consequences as long as they can afford the bribes and in turn get contacts on taxpayer money.
True, but I could also see an authoritarian “communist” government doing all the same surveillance bullshit.
So, while it’s a capitalism problem this time, I don’t think it’s a capitalism-exclusive problem. It really is, at its root, an authoritarianism problem. This time, you’ve got capitalist authoritarianism, but next time maybe a different flavor.
China already has this sort of system completely built out.
Yeah, it’s creepy. There’s almost no secure place in the world at this point.
I’ll tell you more, the UK is one of the leading countries in cameras per capita, either installed or accessible by the authorities (not sure about exact details). They built government surveillance without any communism in sight.
(Leaving alone that China’s state capitalism is the opposite of communism.)
In 2023, China had over 700 million cameras tracking the population.
That’s one camera for every two citizens.
But yes the UK is also building a surveillance state.
But is the technology developed by the state or are they contracting it out to a private company?
How does that matter?
Both are fucking horrible.
But also, China does both. In 2023 they had over 700 million cameras tracking people.
State: communist.
Private: capitalist.
End result: authoritarianism.
You can’t get rid of authoritarianism the same way you can’t get rid of stupid. Some portion of the population will always be the bottom of the bell curve.
What you can do, however, is redirect it into something positive. For example, Japanese social structures are pretty fuckin’ authoritarian. Most people wouldn’t even dream of littering.
True, but you can get rid of hierarchical authority itself, leaving the authoritarians nothing to work with. Ask your local anarchist how.
Authoritarianism means very little, it’s such a broad term that doesn’t localise the origin of repression. Instead of considering the root of the problem here, which is capitalism/private property, you look at a feature or a phenomenon.
Meh, there’s some smart people that have come up with a pretty clear understanding of authoritarianism.
https://theauthoritarians.org/
But your conclusion is also partly correct, the authoritarian personality is not inherently bad, they must first be weaponized.
I didn’t say anything about the authoritarian personality and I don’t really care that some people have figured out something they view as being integral to comprehending society. Honestly, I find life under the systems people like Fromm consider least authoritarian, think Sweden in the 70s, to still be be very brutal towards the masses.
But you know what, I believe your conclusion is also party correct. People with an “authoritarian” streak can be used to guard a worker’s movement.
So every capitalist country is authoritarian?
Yes, necessarily so if we were to take the epithet that is “authoritarianism” seriously. We just don’t talk about what women in marriage have to put up with (the old adage of not biting the hand that feeds one), how we treat children and how accepted it is to subject people to dismal working conditions. It’s considered normal, this is the status quo. You need to enforce property laws with deadly force, suppress movements and the organic formation of opinions and views, in order to for the system to keep functioning as it has.
Just to recheck, you’re saying that Scandinavian countries are authoritarian?
And, you realize that some capitalist countries with private property and capitalist markets, in practice approach anarchy?
Yes of course I am. I am Scandinavian. Have you ever travelled across the Öresund Bridge in a bus? They stop 50+ passengers for upwards of 45 minutes, pull out all the black and arab people seeking work, as well those who look particularly poor, subject them to highly invasive searches and then send some back if they feel like they can get away with it. Or take entering Gothenburg’s harbor by ferry. The send a military ship out to escort your boat. They don’t really have to do this, but they do it to really show you who is the boss/who has authority. When you arrive, something similar to the bus example happens. Take the all the black people into special rooms, make people walk past drug sniffing dogs (that have incredibly high rates of false positives, but that doesn’t matter because it’s about creating anxiety), and metal detectors. it’s not just designed to scare minorities, it’s also meant to incite fear in regular people.
Also, search SÄPO, they are so lacking in transparency that even Swedish government media can’t deny their lack of oversight and unbridled power.
I do. Anarchy of production is the chief reason why climate change can’t be battled by capitalism. I am not an anarchist, I don’t know why you are bringing this up.
Capitalism is about gaining all power (capital). Its end goal is complete surveillance. 2+2 = 4
Yes, 2+2=4, but so does 1+3, 0+4, 1.5+2.5, etc.
The problem of mass surveillance is coming from people who want control. The fact that they are capitalist this time is coincidental. It could just as easily be a theocratic government or an absolute monarchy that wants the level of control that mass surveillance can enable.
That’s how they get away with it too. Worst constitutional loophole ever.
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The same thing is happening/has already happened in China, the government there can find you and black bag you anywhere at any time. Ask Naomi Wu.
Russia basically is this already.
Europe is also trying to go there with the repeated attempts to pass chat control and age restrictions on internet access.
In the US, capitalism is the tool the authoritarians are using to accomplish their goals, and it is absolutely enabling the spread of the surveillance state. Capitalism itself is not the motivation for the surveillance state, it’s just being used by the authoritarians. If we’re going to put a stop to this kind of behavior, we have to get the targets right. Flock and the other companies like them are a symptom of the larger problem.
To my knowledge, Naomi Wu was never “black bagged”. She’s still selling stuff on cybernightmarket. She’s just done posting politics.
But to compare the grief Wu got (and, from what I read forever ago, it was as much other terminally online types screaming at her as any state intervention) with Leqaa Kordia or Mahmoud Khalil both of whom absolutely were “black bagged” in the literal sense? Wu was not indefinitely detained in a prison camp or threatened with torture unless she “voluntarily self-deported”, at least as far as I could find.
Russia is so much more, as they’ve weaponized their prison population into military conscripts.
Really not looking forward to the day I’m arrested by an ICE agent who is, himself, wearing a bomb collar.
The surveillance state is a vital tool of private industry when executives fear a proletariat insurrection. It is a necessary precondition to prevent insurrection.
It’s even more than that. Russia has weaponized their entire civilian population. It’s straight up nazi-level shit where you’re either Z or you’re a traitor. This is what American maga salivates about - complete and utter obedience through surveillance, legal and cultural bullying.
She disappeared from western social media, where she was very active before. Her latest post on twitter was chilling, I just hope she and her partner are ok.
:-/
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…including, like, the custodian?
You’re not going to win over undecided people by advocating for unreasonable, indiscriminate violence, you’re just going to give the opposition ammunition for calling you an extremist.
It would be far more productive to support groups like the EFF and ACLU in lobbying for legislation to prevent such abusive technology. Also get involved in your local town/county politics to advocate against the installation of such things. The absolute last thing the sick fuckers running companies like Flock want is for people to organize against them. Don’t push people away, encourage them to join.
Removed by mod
Right… I’m the one being divisive, by saying that we should organize and work together. Hilarious.
The thing doing the most damage to Flock right now is the negative public opinion pushing counties and townships to cancel contracts. Those “useless” systems are actively responding to the demands of their citizens, and Flock cameras are being removed in many jurisdictions. The way you hurt a capitalist enterprise is to take away its money (loss of contracts).
So, how about you “pick a side” and join in with the effort that is actually producing results?
https://www.npr.org/2026/02/17/nx-s1-5612825/flock-contracts-canceled-immigration-survillance-concerns
https://www.politico.com/news/2026/08/09/flock-cameras-backlash-cancellations-01026242
https://banflockcameras.com/tracker/
https://www.stopflock.com/