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Who’s even going to buy a NEW gas guzzling car in this economy ?
Republican fools.
A government for the people.
Gotta burn that oil or daddy Putin won’t have money to fight his imperialist war.
Right, of course, for the Russian imperialism, and nothing else, especially nobody else’s imperialism, that’s for sure.
🇮🇷1 - 🇺🇸0(🤮)
Bought a PHEV earlier this year and my “old fashioned” family quickly moved from “that boy ain’t right” to “you get HOW MANY miles per gallon??” And they still can’t compute that I can drive 50 miles on less than $2 of electricity and not a drop of gas.
The numbers make sense, people just need to be shown. It’s where the market is headed, no one should really be considering anything less than hybrid. When my wife’s old Civic dies, it’ll be replaced by a full EV.
hey still can’t compute that I can drive 50 miles on less than $2 of electricity and not a drop of gas.
That sounds suspiciously like math, liburul.
Serious question. What happens when the electric grid can no longer support everything, and starts either Browning or blacking out entire city blocks? I’ve seen the numbers, and the EVs are incredible in a lot of ways, but the pull on the grid if every household has an EV is also incredible. Also, supply economics will play a roll eventually, and just like petrol, which used to be 50p/L, electricity costs will rise as demand rises. We need a renewable energy EV. I agree with you, though, that EVs are better in almost every way. Just the grid isn’t ready.
Now do data centers.
Something like 40% of our electricty in the UK is from renewables - on some days it’s 100%! There are days where we’re having to pay wind farms to NOT generate electricity as we already have an oversupply. I honestly don’t see energy supply as a bottleneck for EV uptake.
That is an unrelated issue, clearly.
This is a deadly ignorant take. If every home has 2 EVs to charge, it won’t make enough of a difference to matter. It’s like leaving on extra lights. Residential solar panels are cheap and only getting cheaper.
Meanwhile, data centers have to build diesel turbines because the grid can’t handle their massive draw. But by all means blame the EVs.
But isn’t a residential grid just another form of socialism?
Is it really worth the investment from government?
Obviously depends on where you live, but factor in climate change and ever increasing demand with decades on neglect…
I am worried about the future of fuel taxes at the state and federal level here in the United States. It inevitable that gasoline and diesel taxes will drop if we convert to EV. How will governments recoup this tax reduction?
Edit: This isn’t a criticism of EVs. I’m genuinely curious if this is being considered.
The plan in the UK is to start charging road tax for EVs per-mile, though there’s ongoing discussions about how that will work in practise it’ll probably be based on the mileage recorded during the vehicle’s annual safety checks (“MOT Test”). This seems reasonable enough to me since ICE vehicles essentially pay per-mile based on the amount of fuel the owners buy.
Higher registration. Like… A bunch higher.
Charging at home isn’t a major issue for the grid IMO, it will be fairly predictable en masse.
Those 1500 kW quick chargers taking the electricity consumption of a small town and putting it into one car for a few minutes will be an issue when many cars happen to be charged at once. It’s coming in future Chinese EVs, but requires compatible chargers of course
I’m not commenting to dogpile on you, I think the others have explained why the grid is less of a concern than you might think.
Just wanted to add that we charge ours primarily using excess solar from our home panels, which is an option through our system management tool. It takes longer, but it means even less grid dependency (and virtually “free” vs paying for electricity, which you’re right, will go up in price… though largely due to data centers now, not EVs).
I won’t be surprised if this becomes the norm for EV drivers in the future, as a kWh in the “tank” is worth more than one backfed into the grid. More responsible use for extra power not immediately used.
Yeah, I’m just nearing the end of my first year with solar, and I know the best thing I can do is use every drop of the energy I get. The power company pays me something like a quarter to a third of what I pay them per kwh.
100%, though I’m thankful to have net metering at all, as I know it’s not available in some areas! Building up some credit to use in the less sunny months is nice, helps offset potential days when production doesn’t exceed consumption.
Congrats on going solar!
Two things: decentralized generation (solar on roofs everywhere) and market forces (demand drives grid buildout)
That’ll happen regardless of EVs. You can’t drop a source of power without shifting the load onto something else.
I hope for my next vehicle to be an EV, but I won’t take anything less that 300 miles range. I know that 90% of my driving can be comfortably done in under 200 range, but I do go on longer trips. I know that recharging has come a long way, and I have no problem hanging out for 15+ min at a station, but I won’t do it every 2-3 hours because that’s all I’ve got.
I’m hoping to get many more years out of my current ride before it dies or becomes too costly to repair vs replace. That gives ample time for battery tech to further improve, and hopefully more and cheaper EVs to the market.
I’m not a car snob by any means, but currently the only EV that really piques my interest is the ionic 5 n, but it’s range is just way too low. I’ve been driving a WRX for a little over 6 years now, and love pretty much everything about it. I hope to someday have an EV equivalent of it.
On long driving trips it is reccomended to stop every 2-3 hours for 10 minutes anyways so I don’t see the stopping to charge as an issue tbh.
I usually push 4 hours or about 400 miles when I can on longer trips. I rarely drive late nights anymore, so most of that travel takes place during the light if day. It’s about 4 hours for me to visit my friends in an adjacent state, and I can do that comfortably now under a single tank of gas. That could result a couple of stops on a lower range EV if I didn’t want to push the limits. That’s just something I’m not willing to do right now.
Again, I hope that I can get by without purchasing a new vehicle for many years to come. EVs are getting better and battery tech is improving as well. I think the market will probably meet my needs by the time I’m ready to transition.
Range anxiety is partially what pushed us to go PHEV. We really only use gas if we leave our immediate area, and on longer trips it’s the same as a full ICE car (just with much better efficiency).
I too hope for better batteries and cheaper EVs before my next purchase! Would love to see Chinese cars in the American market to humble these MSRPs.
But if you leave the electrical zone, it’s even less efficient than gas only, no?
Not necessarily. My PHEV (a RAV4) reserves a portion of its battery to use in the same way that a non-plugin hybrid does. The vehicle maintains a charge in that portion through regenerative braking and the motion of the engine, so the battery can never truly go dead.
Even if I never charged mine, I could still drive it as if it were a standard hybrid and continue to get ~39MPG highway. But in reality I do charge it and most of my miles per month are all electric (most PHEVs also have pressurized fuel tanks to keep gas from going stale when it’s unused for lengths of time).
I drive a Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross PHEV. Highway fuel economy is roughly 6L/100Km (about 30mpg) when driving on a depleted battery. Much better than the 9.5L/100Km (24mpg) from the i30 it replaced.
Not as efficient as a Toyota hybrid, but on daily commutes it uses zero fuel and roughly 20kW/100Km.
So the okay fuel economy is offset by the ability to run on electric for 90% of my driving with no range anxiety.
What’s with Asian manufacturers and shit fuel economy lol
That’s diesel BMW X5 fuel economy territory.
have no problem hanging out for 15+ min at a station, but I won’t do it every 2-3 hours because that’s all I’ve got.
And there’s me planning a 2000mi road trip in my '22 Bolt next month lmao. It’ll add several hours to my trip as each stop is 30min-1hr
(The old model Bolts charge pretty slow compared to most modern EVs - 50kw max.)
If I had a Hyundai or something similarly fast charging it would cut my trip by ~5 hours each way. But I almost never take trips over 300mi by car. A few times a decade, maybe.
What this article doesn’t mention is that California is such a massive market that their state-specific regulations often dictate the behavior of car manufacturers country-wide. Why?
Nobody wants to buy a car in TX that cannot be bought or sold in CA. No car company wants to sell a CA-only model vs. a 49-other-state model of the same car, so they meet the California standard for the entire product. There is a national ripple effect that causes the federal fuel standards to become functionally redundant.
Good luck getting the California Air Resources Board (CARB) to go along with these changes, let alone the 17 other states that have adopted the same CA-leading standards.
I think part of what they’re trying to do is to declare federal supremacy and scrap CARB standards altogether. And the Tribunal of Six will probably give it to them. Idk why we even bother with courts anymore tbh
What’s funny is with the cost of gas spiking I don’t think it’ll honestly have a huge effect (not saying I agree with rolling this back). People are tired
Yeah, that’s exactly what I thought as well. Fuel economy has been a major selling point for as long as cars have existed, because it’s always been a major part of the cost of running a vehicle.
Fuel economy has been a major selling point for as long as cars have existed
not in North America. Ask any car dealer, no one even asks.
Fuel economy hasn’t been a selling feature for a majority of buyers in the US since the 1970s. If it was, Ford wouldn’t have stopped shipping sedans here, and EVs wouldn’t need incentives and rebates.
A large section of the US market prefers to take out huge loans to buy an Escalade or a Ford F150 and then bitch about it when gas prices go up.
Ford stopped selling sedans because they couldn’t build good ones to outcompete the Japanese and SK brands economy wise or German/Japanese luxury and performance wise. It isnt because people want worse gas mileage.
Ford sold many of the bestselling global sedans. They stopped making them because the profit margins are higher on SUVs.
https://www.theautopian.com/the-ford-focus-was-once-the-best-selling-car-on-the-planet-now-its-dead/
No they didn’t. Your link, that you didnt even read, qualifies things immediately with Ford’s total sales in the EU only. In reality, the best selling sedan, in both the US and world, has been Japanese every year for the last several decades.
Yet, hybrid vehicles and EVs continue to gain market share. Sure theres a lot of idiots who just want a big truck to stroke their own ego but even those are starting to become hybrid or electric. There’s been a downturn on full EVs after the tax credit expiration but hybrids are still growing strong and the only real benefit to a hybrid vs generic ICE is fuel economy.
EVs need incentives and rebates because they are an extra consideration for other reasons, primarily range and charging availability remaining a concern. Also media scares of EV car fires and battery life, etc.
F150? What am I, a teenager? F250 super duty at least, please.
And even the F150 is much larger than it used to be.
Apparently all the F-series trucks share the same cab now.
America is propped up by reliance on oil.
Freedom to pay more
So instead of promoting more green energy, more EV’s and less greenhouse gasses, the US is hurling backwards in every single policy.
the
USMAGA cult is hurling backwards in every single policy.Ftfy
Yeah, keep believing that you are not ALL controlled and pitted against each other by the same Oligarch/fascist pscho class !
Keep believing that ‘Merica GREAT’ and everything that is happening is all just the dumb maga’s fault !
Keep believing that merican peeps had ever had any actual ‘democratic’ say in what internal/foreign policies was enforced !
That’ll teach your fascist oligarch rulers for good !!
Good thinking !!
Since MAGA is the majority of US governance MAGA is the US to anyone outside of the country. Same as Russia or Israel can be blamed for the wars against neighbors, no one cares that there is internal resistance unless it can actually do something.
It’s a good thing, ICE technology has been pushed past its practical use. Manufactures were making too many compromises to increase fuel economy the ultra light oil they are using is bad for the engines and is one of the main reasons why new cars today aren’t as reliable as ones from the early 2000’s.
The price of gas will probably drive most people who can over to electric or hybrid. But those engines will probably be more reliable now.
is one of the main reasons why new cars today aren’t as reliable as ones from the early 2000’s.
I’m curious about the data that supports this claim? I’ve often heard people lament how cars have “gotten worse” or aren’t “as reliable” as they used to be but I recently read an article from Worse on Purpose that highlights how cars are better manufactured than they used to be.
Or are you using reliability to refer to the accessories and features newer cars have that can fail or require more difficult repair without actually impacting a modern vehicles primary function of transport?
In my experience, engines are mechanically great these days.
It’s all the extra electronics and resulting complexity on the computer side that is usually the culprit for any perceived reduction in reliability.
Yeah, my experience has been the same which is why I wanted to clarify.
Most of those electronics are new though, and we don’t have a way to compare apples to apples. It’d be nice if manufacturers still offered a truly base model like they did decades ago.
I will be honest, I don’t think that will be the case. Also even Chevy moved to a thicker oil that should maintain fuel economy on their newer engines and maybe fix it. It’s still 0w. Its probably not going to do much of anything tbh and GM is covering their ass.
Also the recall is literally manufacturing debris on the Chevy trucks. It’s a race to the bottom in quality. Making cars less efficient isn’t going to make them magically more reliable.
We have 2 cars that are 4 years apart in build. 2008 sienna, paint is perfectly smooth, (ignoring the many scratches on it from it being a work van). 200k mi. The 2012 VW Passat, the paint quality is actually horrific. You can see the orange peel 10 feet away after all the jpeg compression and the denoiser in a photo. The 2gr is a new engine for that platform. The 07K in the Passat is oops all plastic for literally everything. Mind you this is the second revision of an engine that came out in the mid 2000s with a gearbox that came out in the early 2000s. So they’re cost saving where they can, the plastics do kind of break. (I’m also aware that it’s an iron block so it’s gonna be heavier than a comprable aluminum block engine)
The engine issues are almost always manufacturing failures. WHAT DO WE MEAN SWARF/METAL DEBRIS is in the engine block. How the fuck do we forget how to clean an engine.
It’s the Hyundai GDi recall all over again. Also, these are new engine families. Even if we reduce the fuel economy limits, it will happen again when car manufacturers introduce new engines.
Edit: the last engine recall I can think of that wasn’t a manufacturing issue was the Saab oil sludge issues.
the ultra light oil they are using is bad for the engines
Conspiracy theory; as long as oil film is maintained, oil is doing its job. Just having higher pressure (i.e resistance to flow) doesn’t make it better in reality.
Modern ICE vehicles are shit if you’re in the US because American manufacturers have gone from shit to diarrhea. The Japanese still make very reliable cars even though fuel economy is almost as atrocious as the Americans. The Germans make cars that, if maintained, still last a very, very long time with tons of power on low fuel consumption, though you’ll occasionally run into issues with stuff like plastic coolant pipes since they, too, have gone down in quality to save money and weight and the engines themselves are very complex to achieve the balance of power and fuel economy.
There are many many reasons cars are not as reliable as they used to be. Complicated electrical systems, engine parts made increasingly of plastic, individual parts that can’t be repaired and require the replacement of an entire component (I.E. Your door handle breaks and the only way to fix it is to replace the entire door panel.).
But the light oil issue is a major one for drive trains. Many engines weren’t originally designed for the ultra lightweight oil and their seals don’t hold up over the long term.
“We are about to announce a common-sense fuel economy standard because we want Detroit to build cars that Americans want to buy – not cars that Democrats want Washington to build,” “Biden focused on reducing U.S. greenhouse gas emissions and fossil fuel use, accelerating a transition to clean energy and making the U.S. a global leader in clean-energy technology and manufacturing.”
yada yada and more standard childish propaganda for the local peeps. The closer truth is that US didn’t have to care about any of that before, but now, they can no longer extort the rest of the world anymore, and all the exorbitant privileges the merican peeps have always had - WILL be taken away from them. Slam!
Biden and the rest of the Dems are also run by the oligarchy (NO, you didn’t have ‘Democracy’ before either - look it up), and followed the exact same foreign extortion strategy (extort and keep good nations down) as everyone see openly now. Mask are just off, and the Oligarchy are panicking - that’s all. However, Dems are being propagandised to believe that everything were fine until ONE orange man destroyed the finest progressive democracy in the world - come ooonn peeps…
US society and global hegemony was always a ponzi scheme sustained by wars, suppression/extortion, but touted/presented to the merican peeps, as a “capitalist succes !” - an archaic governance belief-system that is ‘coincidentally’ also the best societal substrate for oligarchs to prosper in. Merican ‘succes’ was always about stolen money/resources by extortion/aggression, and ALL merican/capitalist virtues and dogmas was just propaganda to please the home peeps. You think extorting Venezuela was a new thing for US to do ? Using nations as proxy warriors to harm US ‘enemies’ ? Supporting the Izraeli pschos was only the orange man ?? Come on, wake up and start noticing what a horror society you have been living in your whole lives, and discover how much pure evil your lack of activism have caused the rest of the world !
You will all find that all the political activist - ‘Socialists’, ‘Commies’, ‘Anti-fascists’ etc from the so-called “Far right/left/up/down/whatever” was always correct in their attacks on the 100 yo Merican Oligarch/fascist run ‘Empire of Lies’. Time to wake/look up from the propaganda echo-chamber and swallow the realisation that you have all been conned - manipulated - your entire lives for the benefit of the 1% !
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This ignores a lot about how automakers were skirting these restrictions in order to sell us larger vehicles and why there are so few sedans and compact cars being sold here these days.
The rollback isn’t the answer because obviously we should be limiting the size of vehicles, but fuel efficiency is forcing smaller cars out and people here are not buying smaller EV’s because of range anxiety.
