Know a guy.
It is good when people help each other. It warms a truck when a community sticks by each other.
Shit like this is why I love the punk scene. The punk scene is like the idealized small American town, for you may one day be asked to help someone you barely know and do it without a second thought. Why wouldn’t you help someone who needs it. You know damn well that when the time comes and you too need help, it will be found.
I have pulled on my network of comrades to make sure someone got a phone. This was done for the price of food and fellowship.
So we’ve re-derived living in a community from first principles?
This is the way.
You engage in the economy of helping people to move stuff. One person has a dolly, another has a truck, they come, they move the thing, you pay in pizza and at least one IOU of “I’ll be there for you next time”.
When the time comes you are enlisted, you go, you help, you recieve pizza.
The cycle continues.
This is the way.
This is the only way.
It’s so refreshing to see goodvibe things from the US :D
Self organising society can’t work eh? I present exhibit 1A without comment.
People can be good. A society can regulate itself if it is made of good people and bad people are cast out.
Thank you. I liked this, real or not
I am the guy with the truck.
The truck is proof that Americans can and will accept socialism.
It’s brocialism.
A.k.a. community
"What if we had a system where people could get the assistance they need. We could call it… Communityism.
But see, it’s not fair if people just get what they need! You need to make sure people are paying for it!
We can make it part of the system that each person gets help according to their needs, but each person also gives help according to their abilities. Yes yes. This is now definitely capitalism because it’s transactions.
This is now definitely capitalism because it’s transactions.
Capitalism has nothing to do with transactions. Capitalism would be if the truck was owed by Benny, who would not show up, not fill it up with gas, not repair it, but would still receive half of pizza and 2/3 of beer.
You are correct that I was not describing capitalism.
I was participating in the silly by creeping closer to full communism and still saying it’s something else.And I’m not sure why Benny would only get half and 2/3s respectively. They owned the truck, so they’re the one that did the moving. The others are just employees.
I’m pretty sure they were referring to From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs which most definitely is not capitalism lol, it’s a joke
This is now definitely capitalism because it’s transactions.
I get the rest of the comment dude, its the last sentence that is problematic.
the last sentence is a joke… because what is being described is socialism. How is that problematic? lol wat?
It’s not really capitalism without the involvement of capital, is it? It’s more akin to a trade-and-barter-economy/society, where everyone involved should have a high level of faith in others
How do you think Kevin paid for the truck? With pizzas?
Sorry if it wasn’t clear, but money != Capital, not necessarily. You can have money to exchange for goods, but as long as your money doesn’t auto-accumulate via interest, dividends etc, you don’t necessarily have capital. Of course this is mainly a discussion on definitions then
No, the truck is his capital. That’s his means of production — presumably, not just of free pizzas in exchange for moving furniture, but even then, every dollar he saves by not having to pay for dinner could go towards paying off his car loan.
On top of that he’s saving on taxes because no money was ever exchanged for this transaction. Everything about this scenario is 100% capitalist.
I’m pretty sure they were referring to From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs which most definitely is not capitalism lol, it’s a joke
TIL, thx
Is it not what anarchy is really about? Low-level self organization.
The crazy part is it doesn’t matter who you voted for, everyone on both sides would generally love to help their neighbor and would offer a hand. It’s just when people get involved in the macro sense that they get filled with hate and anger. Makes me sad. Let’s just all move couches.
Conservatives are often nice to people they know. The in-group. The problem is when it’s a scary other. So they’ll let Jose couch surf for a week while he sorts out his housing situation, because he’s a good guy down on his luck, but they’ll rage against Those People getting anything.
That’s my understanding too. It’s like empathy just ends at one’s own line of sight. If I can’t see it or touch it, there may be something wrong with it. It’s infuriating.
Yeah, but he’s different, he’s not like the others that you see on the news
My FIL literally helped an undocumented Mexican who worked for him become a citizen, but is anti immigration.
Because they are chudservatives , they are only nice to people they know and like
They are hateful to people they don’t know and don’t like, people who don’t have the same opinions, and people who don’t hold the same beliefs
Can we do that without the latent ableism that comes along with it, like the idea that if you can’t help people move couches then you don’t deserve anyone else’s help either?
This especially effects people with invisible disabilities, who are already viewed as lazy, but who also might be the most helpless when it comes to moving their own furniture.
Kevin and Tony would definitely move a sofa for a person with disabilities. No doubt in my mind. They’d still expect pizza and beer tho, that’s non-negotiable.
Okay well what about when they ask that person later if they’ll help move Tony’s fridge? Like this un-negotiated yet obligatory repayment. If you say “sorry, I can’t” then they’ll immediately lose respect for you, and probably tell everyone they know not to help you in the future. Even if you explain that you have a condition that prevents you, if that condition isn’t visible to them they’ll think you’re just selfish and making excuses.
Also, are you willing to guarantee that Kevin and Tony aren’t racist or homophobic? Are you willing to guarantee they would help move a sofa for someone who’s gay or black? This is about more than just disabilities.
This is about “good ole boy” culture and relying on the benevolence and altruism of people who likely as not only care about helping people they view as a part of their in-group. And if you think that’s not a real problem in america, then you must not live here because it’s literally all over the place here.
Maybe they’d judge you, maybe they wouldn’t. No way of knowing. Sorry that you feel so mistreated by hypothetical strangers. I wasn’t attempting to drum up any sort of trauma for you. I’m sending some lovingkindness out into the world for all living beings right now, and I hope you can get a little hit of it too. Be well.
I think it’s kind of ablist to assume a disabled person has nothing of value to offer, like if they can’t move a couch then they are excluded. “Moving a couch” could be anything, it could be filing taxes or cooking a meal. Disabled people are good at stuff too. I think it’s really weird for you to make this assumption.
Honestly it’s both. Plenty of people with disabilities have plenty to offer. A lot actually don’t though, and they still deserve that helping hand.
A family aquatintance has some mental and physical disabilities. They’re just not going to be able to help in any way that isn’t superficial. And that’s okay. Their worth isn’t defined by their utility.Attaching how worthwhile it is to help someone to their ability to provide a service inherently says the person who can’t isn’t worthy of help.
We should be good to people because it’s the right thing to do, not out of the expectation of a future repayment. More pragmatically, we should help based on the assumption that the other person would, and that if everyone acted like that the world would be better.
I think the other person read a bit much into it, but their base point isn’t wrong.
Thank you! You phrased it better than I could.
I find it wild that most people here can’t see through their own assumptions. Like, everyone else needs to examine their own biases. Not them though, they could never be biased. It shows such a lack of self-awareness on their part.
My dad had a prosthetic leg, and he bristled at some of the polite or accepting ways that people would talk about disability in a way that stuck with me because he explained it. Basically a dislike of “handicapable” or the notion that you “make up for it” in other ways. To paraphrase: “getting my foot cut off in a car accident didn’t come with some perk that balanced things out”.
I think a lot of the pushback you got came not from a place of rejecting that they could have a bias, but from the topic being broached as a confrontation of bias instead of an explanation of ignorance.
People, like the poster above, who are being conscientious according to their understanding will get indignant or frustrated when that’s met with an unmatched response.Assuming positive intent colors implicit “positive abelism”, or other “positive -isms” that I’m personally less knowledgeable about, as unfamiliarity or ignorance rather than callousness or rudeness.
In those cases, the person is very unlikely to disagree or pushback if informed about their blind spot. The key part in their head was “disabled people are just as important”, sitting right next to “good people chip in and contribute”. So they respond to “disabled people can’t always contribute” with “disabled people are important!” phrased as "disabled people can contribute!”.Addressing it as a bias against disabled people doesn’t fit because that part is correct. Need to address it at where the problem is: a misconception about the relationship between human worth, labor and utility.
I agree. Even if the task at hand really is moving a couch, coordinatin, organising, etc. are crucial contributions that dont require physical strength or ableness to do.
Just because you can’t lift the couch doesn’t mean you can’t help. Someone has to pick up the beer, someone has to drive the truck. Someone needs to hold the doors while they carry it in, someone needs to know a guy who can help, the list of things goes on for miles.
What I think is ableist is that you would try to pretend that disabled people don’t get excluded due to society devaluing the things they can offer.
It’s also ableist for you to suggest that a disabled person should be expected to file someone else’s taxes if they need help moving furniture.
You just gave a master class in missing the point.
The same way it isn’t about the couch, it isn’t about the taxes
To each according to their means, to each according to their needs was
Or in brocialism terms “Autism be damned my boy can work a grill”
Every metaphor breaks down if you read it at face value
Okay, that’s fine and all, but “brocialism” will never be enough because it depends so strongly on a person’s personal connection. It’s not “to each accord to their needs” it’s “to each according to their connections.”
If you don’t see how that disproportionally benefits and privileges in-groups then I don’t know how much clearer I can break it down for you. A socialist society needs mechanisms in place to take care of those who would be forgotten by “brocialism” alone.
Maybe the system works for autistic people who can grill, but what about autistic people who can spend two hours explaining the history of North Rhine-Westphalia or Star Trek lore or any other special interest? You think someone with a truck will view that as an equivalent exchange?
Mind you, I’m not saying their talents are worthless. I’m telling you my experience as a neurodivergent person that most people view these things as lacking value and will marginalize anyone whose contributions consist exclusively of talents that most people consider worthless.
Assuming every autistic person can grill or contribute something that neurotypical people value as having worth is wrong because it marginalizes those who fall outside of that limited group, and because it reinforces the system and the idea that people need to be able to contribute something deemed valuable before they deserve to receive help.
And if you can’t see how that disadvantages the people whose disabilities are the most severe, then I don’t know what will get through to you.
“to each according to their connections.”
Show me one part of humanity’s development that did not involve social connection. You, as a human being are part of an unbroken chain of social connections spanning back so far that there isn’t even a word for how many generations it is.
Maybe the system works for autistic people who can grill, but what about autistic people who can spend two hours explaining the history of North Rhine-Westphalia or Star Trek lore or any other special interest? You think someone with a truck will view that as an equivalent exchange?
You’re still focusing too much on the minutiae of the reference not the meaning behind it, its not about the grilling the same way it’s not about the truck, the same way small talk isn’t about the weather.
To use your own words
I don’t know how much clearer I can break it down for you
ITS ABOUT MAKING A CONNECTION WITH ANOTHER HUMAN BEING AND DISCOVERING THAT NOT EVERYONE IS A CUNT.
I have fully ND mates, who have special interests that they have built communities around. One of whom was genuinely incapable of spending time out in public without being in full body attack mode after less than an hour is now entirely able to spend an entire day out at a festival AND maintain enough social battery to continue spending time with friends well into the evening. Something they have fully admitted to me would not be possible five years ago.
the idea that people need to be able to contribute something deemed valuable before they deserve to receive help.
Some people enjoy conversation. Some people are bad at using maps. Some people need to be able to speak out their thoughts aloud to even begin to analyse them and require a rubberduck that can ask questions.
“Something deemed valuable” can have many meanings to many people, but you’ll never find out what they deem valuable by mentally labelling them as a degenerate that should not be interacted with the second they say something you disagree with.
Cool thing about being disabled is you become the one who knows the people with a truck and a couple 20-year old children. Or the person who cuts hair for free. Or the person whose cousin does pro bono legal work for certain requests.
In short, you become the key connector in that network: the Guy Who Knows A Guy.
It sounds like you’re putting a lot of weight in your own experience and assuming every disabled person will have the same experience.
Maybe you or someone you know is disabled and is that connector who knows a guy. But projecting that and assuming every other disabled person will have that same advantage is a wild thing to do, and I’m surprised that more people don’t see through that.
My wife has a physical disability, she is an “asker”, as in knows she will need help from others and so will ask random people, and also connects a lot of people together. Maybe not everyone becomes that, but it sort of forces you to.
Why is everyone relying so hard on using specific counterexamples as a counterargument?
Counterexamples only refute absolute statements. If I said “no one with a disability can find the help they need in this kind of system,” then sure, listing a few people with disabilities who do find the help they need would be enough to refute that statement.
But that’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is “not everyone (including, but not limited to people with disabilities) can find the help they need in this kind of system.”
It’s a completely different statement, because it’s not an absolute. I’m not saying that no exceptions exist. I’m saying that exceptions do exist to the opposite statement, i.e. “everyone (including people with disabilities) can find the help they beed in this kind of system.” Which, by the way, is an absolute statement.
So in fact I’m the one arguing against an absolute, and people try refuting me as if I’m stating an absolute when I’m not.
And unless anyone wants to argue that every single person in this system is able to find the help they need when they need it, then there’s really no way to argue against my point, because my entire point is simply that that’s not true. There are people who get left out, and any attempt to claim otherwise is erasure.
It’s less an advantage and more a necessity. You either become the person who knows people who can do things or certain things don’t get done.
Yes, you’re right about that. And that’s precisely why people who can’t form those connections are at such a disadvantage.
My partner has disabilities and so they do not help lift the sofa. But they are a lot better at driving a manual truck than I am, so with a few pillows and adaptations in the driver’s cab that is what they do when someone needs a sofa moved. Some disabilities prevent you from driving the truck too, but it’s important as a group of sofa movers to make sure that everyone has something they can fulfill, even if that means planning the move. That can be incredibly helpful.
Anecdotes and exceptions don’t justify the erasure of marginalia.
Like, why don’t all blind people just become famous musicians so that they can be rich? Ray Charles did it.
No one in their right mind would think that means blind people don’t require assistance/accomodations.
Your partner has disabilities but can drive a stick shift? Great. I guess the rest of us disabled people just need to bootstrap a little harder?
I think we all understand you are angry and respect that (I hope).
But saying it’s nice and good when people are helpful doesn’t imply that peiple who can’t help are not nice and good. There’s some kind of logical fallacy in that interpretation of it.
It’s not just about whether a person can help about and whether that makes them nice and good.
It’s more about, there are people who get left out of society and they would struggle to find the help we need if we leave it entirely up to the good will of people helping their neighbors.
There needs to be more structured support, like taxpayer-funded programs designed to help everyone to receive the support they need, including (and especially) the people who are the most disadvantaged.
Helping your neighbor is good and shouldn’t go away. But we shouldn’t rely on that as a society to help the people who need it most. And we certainly shouldn’t glorify a society that does depend on that, instead of funding structured social support programs that make a point not to leave anyone out who needs help.
I don’t think we understand your point or how it relates to this post
Exactly. You don’t, and you’re unwilling to hear perspectives that conflict with your own, so you never will. That’s only reinforcing the erasure of already-invisible marginalia. The whole point of what I’m saying.
It seems like you’re saying that by not mentioning people with disabilities in every story they are inherently being ableist. Or is your point that the person in the screenshot should not have helped move the sofa?
You better come with some jokes then. When I’m moving some bulky furniture upstairs and really not having a good time, sometimes a well-timed joke is exactly what we need to drop it and injure ourselves.
Was this supposed to be an attempt at a joke?
If you want to be included by people, try to be less of a dick.
This isn’t me talking about the wider disabled community, of which I am part of, when I say this btw, this is me talking to you.
Okay, while you’re jerking off the dicks driving big-ass little-dick trucks, I guess I’ll try being nicer to those assholes while they honk their horns at pedestrians, double-park or park on crosswalks, and all that other shit that they do and everyone knows they do because they’re doing it in big-ass trucks and it’s not subtle.
Especially the ones rolling coal and flying trump flags. Should I try to be less of a dick to them to? I don’t want to be included in whatever they’ve got going on. I certainly would never ask one to help move furniture. Their trucks are only for show anyway…
Are you in a lot of pain or in withdrawel or something? I’m struggling to understand where all this self victimising vitriol is coming from otherwise.
Yes, being disabled sucks, yes most people also suck, and everything is also fucking awful everywhere most of the time, and that sucks too.
But this is a comment section under a lighthearted post about moving furniture, so there’s obviously something else going on that has you so upset.
[Deleted duplicate]
We do socialism all the time.
Neighbors bring each other gifts. Friends feed one another. Someone is struggling and we give them what they need, no questions asked.
That’s not really socialism, given that it is not universally distributed but depends on one’s social connections. A socialist system would have impersonal mechanisms for catching those who fall through the cracks due to not knowing enough people to ask for and repay favours. (And those people do exist: “everyone knows a guy with a truck” except perhaps for a socially isolated shut-in or someone who does not speak the language, or someone who does not fit in with the community in their truck catchment radius.)
Yeah, in this case “everyone” literally just means “everyone who’s visible within my social radius.”
It completely erases everyone else, like the types of people you mentioned. It’s very in-group focused, and bears uncanny parallels to the fascist idea that outsiders don’t matter.
deleted by creator
I am also the guy with the truck. But I do not drive 5-speed manual very well. So the truck lives at the house of my friend who is good at driving manual. He’s kind of my Tony, I guess. The truck is indeed a community resource of anyone we are decent friends with.
Ease the clutch out at the same rate you put on the gas. Just a nice smooth up and down with both feet at the same time, like you are pedaling a bike, but with 2 tons hammering around you.
Until now, trucks seemed to be linked to toxic masculinity. Turns out, the guys just want to be part of the community.
In Australia the price is beer. If it’s a small job, one or two beers, either while doing the job or at the end, big job means a whole case of beer per person. Everyone would think there was something wrong with you if you provided only pizza.
in my experience, this is also how 3d printers work…
Today would be my brother’s birthday, he was my truck guy (and so much more).
I own a truck. I live in the states. In a state more urban than rural - so less trucks comparatively speaking.
BY FAR - the best part about owning a truck, is being asked to help someone move something big. This couldn’t be more true. Except sometimes the payment can be, or include a single cold beer. My name isn’t Kevin though.
I do this ALL THE TIME-and I love it.
Fyi, if you are moving one piece of furniture, sure get the truck guy and a couple buddies. If you are moving ALL your stuff, hire movers. (Unless you and your buddies are in their 20s)
If you are moving ALL your stuff, hire movers.
In my experience, that’s what Dad is for.
It starts with Dad moving you to and from dorm rooms. Then apartments.
When my wife and I moved to our house I hired movers. It was a lot easier and not terribly expensive.
When my wife moved her business to a new building, my mom told me my dad insisted on helping us move, so I didn’t hire movers as I had planned. When we were moving the tons of furniture, cabinets, and massive boxes stuffed full of files, my dad mentioned that my mom told him I had asked him to help me move. I have never been able to determine why my mom manipulated us into nearly killing ourselves.
Now I’m the dad. I’ve moved kids to and from dorm rooms and apartments. I’ve rented trucks for huge moves. My daughter and I are moving a couch, a dresser, an end table and all her cooking utensils on Saturday.
Not only do I have a truck, I also have straps, furniture dollies, moving blankets, mattress bags, etc.
My most recent purchase was a shoulder dolly. If you haven’t seen one, picture two harnesses with a wide strap running between them. Two people squat on either end of the item being moved with the wide strap running under it. You take up the slack in the strap, and just stand up to lift it off the ground. It’s a game changer.
I’ve become my own moving company.
Having been the guy with the truck for a while, that is 100% how it works. However, the currency can also be a beer (or two).
I’m in halifax, Nova Scotia, if someone knows a guy, let me know
Im the truck guy.
